The Economics of Immigration: Who Wins, Who Loses and Why

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JASON REED / Reuters

President Barack Obama delivers remarks on immigration reform at Del Sol High School in Las Vegas on Jan. 29, 2013.

Washington’s focus has shifted to immigration reform this week as a bipartisan group of Senators put forward a comprehensive plan on Monday and President Obama followed with a proposal of his own yesterday. The debate thus far has been anchored around the bipartisan Senate proposal, the President’s support for a “path to citizenship,” and House Republican’s opposition to it. The opposition to the plan so far has centered around concerns about such a deal inviting a new influx of undocumented workers, or its rewarding those who have violated the law. These are important discussions to have, but with the economy here at home still so fragile, many are wondering what sort of effect immigration has on the American economy.

Here’s a look at four big questions concerning the economics of immigration:

Does immigration reduce wages for native-born Americans? 

It might seem like a no-brainer that increased immigration would reduce the wages of native-born Americans. A simple supply and demand model would tell you that more workers means lower wages. But the story is actually more complicated than that. According to a 2010 survey of the economic literature on the subject, the Brookings Institute concluded that, “The most recent academic research suggests that, on average, immigrants raise the overall standard of living of American workers by boosting wages and lowering prices.”

(MORE: Will Immigration Reform Work This Time?)

How can it be that more workers competing over the same jobs can lead to higher wages? The reason is that it’s not actually more workers competing over the same jobs. Immigration actually changes what jobs employers need to fill. For one, an influx of cheap labor can make certain businesses like farming or restaurants feasible. (Absent cheap labor, these firms simply could not compete with foreign rivals.) Second, immigrants not only supply labor, but demand it, too. And a larger domestic population through immigration creates more potential customers for business, as well.

Is immigration a drain on the welfare state?

Another popular argument for maintaining tough restrictions on immigration is that without strict laws limiting immigration, unskilled workers would flock to America to take advantage of its relatively robust welfare state. The economic literature in this area yields conflicting conclusions and varies greatly depending on the country being studied. Some studies show that immigrants take out more in benefits than they pay in taxes, while other studies show the opposite. But George Mason University economist Bryan Caplan argues that the welfare state in America specifically dissuades folks from coming here purely for welfare benefits. First, writes Caplan:

“Contrary to popular stereotypes, welfare states focus on the old, not the poor. Social Security and Medicare dwarf means-tested programs. Since immigrants tend to be young, they often end up supporting elderly natives rather than ‘milking the system.’ Illegal immigrants who pay taxes on fake Social Security numbers are pure profit for the Treasury. In 2005, Social Security’s chief actuary estimated that without all the taxes paid on invalid Social Security numbers, ‘the system’s long-term funding hole over 75 years would be 10 percent deeper.'”

Second, Caplan points out that most government spending is what economists call “nonrival,” meaning that the government “can serve a larger population with little or no extra cost.” For instance, he argues, the United States military could adequately defend a population of twice the size of America for the same, or just slightly higher, cost. “An even clearer case,” Caplan writes, is “if the population of the U.S. doubled overnight, the national debt (not deficit) would remain the same, and the per capita debt would halve. The lesson: Immigrants can pull their own fiscal weight even if their tax bills are well below average.”

(MORE: Why Undocumented Workers Are Good for the Economy)

Does immigration help the economy grow?

The most important factor driving economic growth is innovation. To put it simply, if American workers and firms can figure out how to do their jobs more efficiently, we’ll see economic growth. And according to University of California economist Gordon Hanson, immigrants — specifically high-skilled immigrants — are great for innovation. Immigrants are more likely than native-born Americans to secure patents on new inventions or processes, and Hanson argues, immigrants can bring unique knowledge about foreign markets to American firms.

But it’s not just high-skilled immigrants who can help boost economic growth in America. According to Hanson, low-skilled immigrant workers can make the American economy more efficient as well. First of all, low-skilled immigrant workers are more willing to move to find work than native-born American workers. Writes Hanson:

“Low-skilled U.S.-born workers tend to be immobile across regions. When, say, the demand for low-skilled labor picks up in North Carolina, native-born workers in other regions are slow to move in . . . The consequence of the immobility of low skilled labor is to gum up the labor market, slowing the pace of growth in booming regions and the pace of recovery in slumping regions.”

(COVER STORYWe Are Americans—Just Not Legally)

In addition, an increase in low-skilled immigrant workers can also help to make the high-end of the labor force more efficient. Increasingly, high-skilled workers are women who are also married to high-skilled husbands. And an increase in low-skilled labor willing to do everyday housework like laundry, cleaning, and childcare frees these workers to spend time more productively at their jobs.

Whom does immigration hurt then?

Economists, as a rule, like to look at the big picture. And the vast majority of the economic literature argues that a more liberal immigration policy would be good for the U.S. economy as a whole. The problem is, of course, that not everyone is going to come out a winner. A particularly contentious issue as far as economists are concerned is the effect of immigration on low-income, native-born workers. As I mentioned before, the literature is divided on whether an increase in low-skilled immigrant labor hurts low-skilled native workers in the long-run or not.

But it’s almost certain that in individual cases there will be workers who get put out of work by immigrant competition. And these individual stories of hardship are a much more salient effect of immigration than a slew of patents that make hundreds of products ever-so-slightly more efficient. In other words, the benefits of increased immigration will be spread out among the entire population, while the costs will be borne by a relatively small group of individuals who will feel the effects acutely.

In addition, we must not forget that there is more at stake here than purely economic considerations. Those who are opposed to more liberal immigration policies, or a “path to citizenship” for undocumented workers in America are concerned about ideas of fairness, the sanctity of the law, and the integrity of American culture. And these are all issues that will be debated openly and forcefully in the coming months as Congress considers the issue. But as these debates continue, it’s worth noting that mainstream economists mostly agree that more immigration is, on balance, good for the economy.

PHOTOSFamily Photos of an Undocumented Immigrant

121 comments
HaywoodJablomie
HaywoodJablomie

The FACT is that Hispanic Americans do NOT want amnesty for illegal aliens. So, then, just who do these so-called "immigrant rights" groups represent?

The answer is that they have nothing whatsover to do with "immigrants" OR "rights." They are seditious "Reconquista" groups.

Reconquista groups are groups that believe the Southwestern U.S. was stolen from Mexico. They want to reconquer (reconquista) the area and create a Chicano homeland called "Aztlan."

Under the euphuism 'Hispanic Homeland' and 'Nation of Aztlan,' activists from numerous organizations including Mexican American Legal Defense and La Raza (The Race) activists are attempting to annex large portions of SW United States to Mexico. "Republica del Norte," the Republic of the North, which would include the present U.S. states of California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texa...s, plus southern Colorado, along with several current Mexican states, is "an inevitability" says Charles Truxillo, professor, University of New Mexico. He further states the new "Hispanic Homeland" should be brought into being "by any means necessary."
 
Polls show that Hispanic-Americans, like all Americans, support stronger enforcement of our immigration laws. http://tinyurl.com/k5pmyq7
 
 

MelissaTrahin
MelissaTrahin

I agree, Immigration has been a prolonged issue in the U.S because politically it has guaranteed power over minority groups who ideally threaten the American ways. The issue of immigration has served as propaganda for America, which ironically also ads to the problem. But is the concern really the economy? The desperate need of immigrants to financially support their family leads to illegal actions that create an obligatory consideration to security.  Not to say that these actions are acts of violence but instead a burden to the law, resources and past cases of discrimination or terrorism. When three out of every 100 people in America are undocumented or documented with fake papers; there is a serious and known security problem. According to “The White House Blog,” immigrants start businesses, boost earnings for American workers, develop technologies and companies, boost demand for local consumer goods etc.

            I propose that a limited worker program in which immigrants are given legal documentation for the purposes of employment would decrease illegal actions and benefit the economy. A form of citizenship such as the DREAM Act was found effective towards reducing the deficit.Although it is a tough thing to suggest, an immigration reform would help the government know who people are, where they are and what they do. Otherwise, many illegal immigrants have and will continue to get away with acts of crime due to the fact that they don’t have an identity. Lastly, the U.S government is responsible for encouraging immigrants to become invested in the American culture by learning English, paying taxes and following the law. (Consider “The Melting Pot”). As a result, immigrants would feel the need to act as a citizen and take care of this country as well as their home country. 

bjoe427
bjoe427

This is just another biased,lie artical trying to make Illegal Aliens seem important to our econamy,yes they hold down wages.because they work for what the employer WANTS to pay them whitch is slave wages at best!.,yes they suck our safty nets dry because it costs up to $10,000 a year for one illegal alien child to go to one of our scools,They collect the welfare,attend the scool undercut an americans job,and pay no taxes.except sales taxes.thats nothing compared to a USA Citizen or legal resident immigrant!.We give and they take period.problem wqith Pathway to citizenship (AMNESTY)no matter how long they say it will take is still Amnesty,We break a law we dont get rewarded for it,we get punished.The crime,gangs,prison costs,the verry fact some hang the United States flagg upside down under the Mexican flagg is reason enough for me to want them all gone!.Our Emergancy rooms,and welfare offices are allways packed full of Mexicans.and the USA Citizen allways come up short on the fareness side of this bias stick!.Our healthcare costs go up because we the USA Citizen pay for what they get.But we are suposed to be Politically correct.This is a sham artical at best!.

CoryHernandez
CoryHernandez

We invite organizations and individuals from all countries to march with us for a "JUST AND ATTAINABLE IMMIGRATION REFORM FOR ALL" to show our elected officials that we are all united in this cause. Please contact us right away if you will be participating and make sure to tell your friends that are sympathetic to our cause. We request that, if possible, everyone wears white. Please take only US flags to the march and if you have posters keep them positive.

We will meet at corner of Fremont St. and S. Main St. and travel East to 4th Street.
From 4th Street we will travel South to Lewis Ave.
From Lewis Ave. we will travel East to Rally on the West side of Las Vegas Blvd.


RoyLawson
RoyLawson

Out of the 65,000 primary cap, over 42,000 go to just 12 offshore outsourcing companies based in India. That is killing us.

GloriaHiggs1
GloriaHiggs1

upto I looked at the receipt which had said $9927, I did not believe that my cousin was like they say actually bringing in money in there spare time from there labtop.. there best friend has done this 4 less than 21 months and as of now repaid the mortgage on there house and bought themselves a BMW 5-series. read more at, Great60.comTAKE A LOOK

ShreeShrestha
ShreeShrestha

All these illegal immigrants are already here and they are working and supporting their families. They are just not paying taxes, driving without license and have no liability and health insurance. Making them legal means bringing them out of shadow and making them pay taxes which will benefit government. One more point, the people here always take Mexicans and illegal in one breath. There are many whites from Sweden or Poland or Britain and many more blacks from Sudan or Nigeria illegally in USA. But the people here have no courage to ask where they are from. Whites are whites and blacks - you will be called racist just asking their nationality. Mexicans are easy to brand as illegals.

BorisIII
BorisIII

If Mexico keeps financially growing maybe they will build a wall to keep guns out and cut way back on the cartels income that keeps drugs from crossing the border.  Also, if all you have is a high school degree it will be a lot harder to get a job.  People from developed countries are more motivated to work hard labor jobs for minimum wage.

StopH1bNow
StopH1bNow

stop job-killing H1b's now, right now. Let your rep's know that is poison, and that you'll be remembering who voted for this when it's your turn to vote. The H1b system is full of fraud and corruption, don't believe the b/s about how everyone is following the rules and how we need this to stay competitive. It's bad for the economy and bad for the STEM professions. Stop H1b now

kenn28hall
kenn28hall

There should be NO amnesty and politicians who support it should not be re-elected.

BobStemple
BobStemple

I for one will pay attention to who votes for this new amnesty bill and when it comes time to reelect the person I shall vote for someone else. I will not care which party they belong to. I shall just vote for the other person. I know that the media and the official thinks that I will forget by the time there is an election, but I shall make a bucket list just for elections from now on and I can go to the bucket list and vote against them. Any official that votes for a law that takes away my rights of any kind will lose my vote. If they vote against a constitutional law they will lose my vote. I'm tire of voting for someone who claims to be a one way and they when they are elected they are the other. I have to work for a living so I do not have the time nor should I need to protest every time an elected official wonders off the reservation.

 

BobStemple
BobStemple

What I see with this (new?) immigration law is that if enough people break the law then the government can't enforce the law. 11 million illegal people are telling the US government to stick it. What is the government doing, they are going to make them citizens of the US. Was it 3 million when Ronald  Reagan gave them amnesty? Seems to me that the government and those in the press willing to tell us law abiding citizens how great this is are selling us down the river. What a shame for our children and grand children. 

I do know one thing for sure, any time when and if I'm a juror I'll decide for myself which laws I will believe in and which I will disregard. I'll tell the judge what he wants to hear to make sure I set on the jury. It is the only way I'm able to fight back at this point and fight back I shall! I shall disregard any instructions from the judge and make my own decisions. I'm sick and tired of the elected elite picking and choosing which laws to enforce and which to ignore. The swore to uphold the law and they are not.  

It should be a new movement. It will be a way to push back. The heck with what laws lawmakers come up with. Just follow the constitution of the United States of America. 

Bob

RyanLeonard
RyanLeonard

This is an absolute joke. The entire foundation of this article is based off of his own opinions as a REPORTER. Anybody that has an understanding of economics can shoot massive holes into each and every one of these conclusions. 

fxmaven
fxmaven

What a pathetic article. Simply cheerleading for Obama and his new Latino perma majority.

DanielGenseric
DanielGenseric

ASIA FOR THE ASIANS, AFRICA FOR THE AFRICANS, WHITE COUNTRIES FOR EVERYBODY!"

No one is flooding Asia with millions of non-Asians and saying 'Breed yourself out of existence. That's life.'

No one is flooding Africa with millions of non-Africans and saying 'Breed yourself out of existence. That's life.'

No one is flooding Mexico with millions of non-Mexicans and saying 'Breed yourself out of existence.That's life.'

You are advocating genocide for White children.

Why do you anti-Whites hate White children so much that you would breed them out of existence? Why genocide?

They say they are anti-racist. What they are is anti-white.

Anti-racist is a code word for anti-white.

GilbertGonzales
GilbertGonzales

we call this poetic justice, just as the americans, portuguese and spaniards came to our shores to enslave us, they educated us in their "western ways". now its payback when our brethren come to their shores not with guns and cannons but with education, hard work and quest for a better life. most of them send monies back home to their relatives, just as our early caucasian conquerors sends back the fruits of our enslavement back to their homeland.

LanceJohnson
LanceJohnson

Let’s face it, this immigration thing is a 20th century issue that has slopped over into the 21st century. The time has come to finally resolve it in an intelligent fashion, as three-fourths of Americans favor and Obama will undoubtedly confront. An interesting new worldwide book/ebook that helps explain the role, struggles, and contributions of immigrants and minorities is "What Foreigners Need To Know About America From A To Z: How to understand crazy American culture, people, government, business, language and more.”  Endorsed by ambassadors, educators, and editors, it paints a revealing picture of America for those who will benefit from a better understanding.As the book points out, immigrants and minorities are a major force in America, as Romney recently discovered.They come to improve their lives and create a foundation of success for their children to build upon. Chapter after chapter identifies “foreigners” who became successful in the US and contributed to our society. However, most struggle in their efforts and need guidance. Perhaps intelligent immigration reform, White House-Congress cooperation, concerned citizens and books like this can extend a helping hand. www.AmericaAtoZ.com

challenger_girl
challenger_girl

These figures are taken from a table showing the average years of schooling that adults of different countries attain. The average number of years for the US is 12.

1. Mexico: 7.2 years of schooling
2. Guatemala: 3.5 years of schooling
3. El Salvador: 5.2 years of schooling
4. Honduras: 4.8 years of schooling

These 4 countries send the majority of illegal aliens to the US. Giving citizenship to millions of poorly educated people, most of whom do not speak English and tend to have larger than average size families is not a recipe for economic growth. One is led to suspect that instead of any positive impact on the economy, we will see an increase in taxes needed to support millions of additional recipients of services and benefits who will pay little or nothing in taxes.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/edu_ave_yea_of_sch_of_adu-education-average-years-schooling-adults

RexJ123
RexJ123

Well shoot!  If "more immigration is, on balance, good for the economy", then unlimited immigration must be great!  Let's throw open those borders, dismantle those fences, get rid of ICE, and tell the world that, "If you can get here, you can stay here!"  Cannot wait for the great times that are surely just around the bend as we rocket towards 1 billion people in the USA.

mikeylikeychiptole
mikeylikeychiptole

Let us Americans decide if we will take jobs that illegal immigrants do.  We won't do them because why?  because it sounds good saying "they're doing jobs we won't do?"

carolcarol
carolcarol

@MelissaTrahin I find it interesting that you highlighted the idea that undocumented immigrants do not take personal responsibility for the outcome of this country because they are not given the opportunity to be accepted in it. Thus, taking action to give them an identity within the United States may be beneficial for all, including existing citizens.

Thanks for the insight!

aoeu512
aoeu512

@ShreeShrestha

I don't know much about the amount of Black and White illegals.  I just thought it funny because Mexicans are descendent from Native Americans, they even look like Native Americans, and their families were in the United States before the pilgrims came.

SpartaofPhoenixAZUSA
SpartaofPhoenixAZUSA

@ShreeShrestha Please get educated...87% of all ILLEGAL ALIENS come from "Latin America"! It is asinine to focus on the other 12% in order to simply not hurt the feelings of the 87% and their supporters. If they are illegal, "white, polish" whatever they are illegal...Stop trying to make this about race! 

rhesus303
rhesus303

@ShreeShrestha I would like to know what your source is for the assertions that 'There are many whites from Sweden or Poland or Britain' and 'many more blacks from Sudan or Nigeria illegally in USA'.

Benj1234
Benj1234

@BobStemple Most big laws now days are unconstitutional. The simple fact is that immigration is good if handled correctly and it is costing us more money to fight illegal immigration than just embracing them.

I don't like having to pay for food, but I've accepted the reality that humans need food to live. Your turn to accept reality instead of having unrealistic ideals.

RyanLeonard
RyanLeonard

@BobStemple   Don't get me wrong, I completely see where you are coming from because it absolutely disgusts me how the complete negligence across the board by our decision makers have let it get to this point. However, considering where we are at now and going forward from here, from a fiscal resource standpoint we could either dump an enormous amount of money we don't have and focus in the strategic tracking down, deporting, and maintenance of them or could FINALLY be accountable for once and document, monitor, and hold them responsible for themselves like the rest of us law abiding citizens and get a massive (and long overdue) economic surge from the taxes contributed by their legal wages earned. 

kenn28hall
kenn28hall

@DanielGenseric Your logic is so very flawed and obviously racist. I am against any form of amnesty that includes "a path to citizenship" and will track how my representatives vote on this issue. However, I don't understand your concern for the future of "white children" as this is an issue that has more to do with fairness.

SpartaofPhoenixAZUSA
SpartaofPhoenixAZUSA

@GilbertGonzales LOL! Racists are clowns no matter what the "color"...Thank you moron; for highlighting what most of already know. This moronic theory that the "WEST" is to blame for the failings of the "third world" is getting old...

RyanLeonard
RyanLeonard

@GilbertGonzales You sound like a bitter pathetic racist towards white people because of hundreds and hundreds of years ago some people that neither of us were remotely connected to or even similar did? Enjoy your little shameful economy destroying crusade pablo..

AverageGuru
AverageGuru

@LanceJohnson true bro, people needs to be educated about immigrant, there are alot successful philanthropists and businessmen in america are in fact children or grandchildren of hard working immigrants over the last century, and thats not a long ago if you're speaking on a population related topic. I heard alot of people stating that all of these people are criminals, stealing from americans social welfare, so deport them, really? I heard once that a lack of knowledge can lead to ignorance, thats why I rarely argue with these kinds of individual. I am not backing these undocumented immigrants, so just stating that we need a rational, possible and smart form of immigration. If your wish is to close americans borders and or cease the flow of immigrants, thats like killing your body cells that become infected by a terminal virus instead being preventive of it. Americans is built on immigration, no matter what generations you're or where you're from, you still have some sort of ancestral ties to somewhere out of america. lol Look at what going on in cuba and north korean, I'm not speaking about the government system but the cut off from the outside world.

 

AverageGuru
AverageGuru

@challenger_girlfirst of all your source is irrelevant from the thesis in your topic. However, your concern is the flow of un-skilled and or low-skilled immigrant in america? lol picking fruits and vegetables or working at McDonald, or cleaning a house or hotel doesnt require a Bachelor or Ph.D so yes there is a need for non-skilled and low-skilled worker whether they're americans or immigrants. And the proposed law is aimed at securing the borders and learning english, so i think it may resolve your concerns. So yes you should support it them :). and as for your tax concerns, do it a research, the law is aimed at bringing these undocumented immigrant currently in america out of the shadow to the tax table so they are accounted for. My only adding is to deport the criminals out of them which account to small percentage amongst them. And if you did your research, you'll find out that most of these folks are young to middle aged adults, so the government will just have to make sure that they have to work, unless under extreme circumstances. Just like how, if you're paroled felon or criminal, one of the requirement will be that you maintain a valid employment, so this should apply to these folks too. And of course, they must be fines (pay back taxes, legalization fee, etc)

AverageGuru
AverageGuru

@RexJ123 cmon be realistic, so you mean since they're gun a lot people rallying for tougher gun laws, we should just take all of the guns from people? lol, we/they are talking about a feasible solution. America has one the best police forces (including detectives, federal agents, etc) but yet our crime waves are skyrocketed amongst most western countries, and most of these crimes, the violent ones, are committed with some involvement of a firearm. so baring gun ownership may sound like solution but not possible or worse yet not feasible. But we can restrict certain aspects of it.

AverageGuru
AverageGuru

@mikeylikeychiptole if americans were doing these jobs, for instance picking vegetables and or fruits, alot of workers would demand better wages and benefits from times to times, and trust me almost all of these expenses will be pass on consumers, American government is established in a form to support capital gain for businesses, so under no circumstances the government will force businesses/industries to outspend more than they'll make. So consumers will have to suck up these expenses, and then people will start complaining why are they $2 for a piece of apple. So yeah we need low-skilled immigrants.

BobStemple
BobStemple

@Benj1234  you can grow your own food. Hunt your own food. No one is forcing you to buy. What I had paying for is cable TV and the have to set through commercials! So I do not pay for cable TV, and if I'm watching a program on the antenna that has commercials I usually put in a DVD and watch a movie that I've seen more than once. At least I'm not watching commercials. If I like a show I will buy the DVD and watch the show commercial free.

Bob

RyanLeonard
RyanLeonard

@Benj1234 So let me get this straight: most laws that, by definition, are required to be in accordance with the outline of our constitution are all unconstitutional? Okay, moving on... yes it is costing our nation a lot of money to combat this illegal immigration epidemic right now but if you had any understanding of basic economics then it would be clear that the massive amount of illegal immigrants TAKING (utilizing state/federally funded things like public schools, social programs, roads, prisons, police, etc.) and not CONTRIBUTING to the pot via taxes you have a crippling imbalance of your elementary concept of give/take. You're right, legal immigration can definitely be good for us when contained through caps and facilitating their transition to a contributing member of our society. It is completely irresponsible and ignorant to 'embrace' illegals in this country. Do you think it is a coincidence that the state of California is in financial ruins despite being an affluent and prominent hub for wealth and worldwide metropolises?. 

kenn28hall
kenn28hall

@AverageGuru @LanceJohnson This 2013 not 1913. Legal immigration is not under attack. That we are a "nation of immigrants" is an observation that is being exploited to justify amnesty for illegals. I say vote out those in office who support amnesty.

RyanLeonard
RyanLeonard

@AverageGuru  I dont think anybody is raising a legitimate argument for 'shutting down the borders' altogether. LEGAL immigration is fine, it fosters accountability and they are contributors to our economy. It's the ILLEGAL/UNDOCUMENTED immigrants that cause an increasingly dangerous imbalance to the basic economic concept of contributing (taxes) and utilizing resources (streets, social programs, public schools). When white Americans are raising hell about this enormous problem and are automatically labeled as racists or being ignorant is an absolute cop-out and ironically it's way more ignorant on their behalf to do so. 

RyanLeonard
RyanLeonard

@AverageGuru @mikeylikeychiptole You are so so so dangerously missing a giant part of the equation. You are using a comparison of 'picking vegetables' type of jobs that is about 15 years behind. The mass exodus up North to America has become a dominant and majority demographic amongst more than 'dirt poor' jobs nobody wants here. You are using the consumerism based theory of capitalism like we are in a manufacturing 3rd world economy and can just let the supply and demand police the labor market. The reality of today is that this is not a manufacturing economy and the vast majority of immigrants are not out working in a hot field picking fruit for minimum wage. 

AverageGuru
AverageGuru

@RyanLeonard  lol I cant argue with you on this one. You're correct on most part, but I dont think majorly putting any partial blame of our economy taking a down turn is so so true. Analogy 'if you keep blowing a balloon, it'll keep growing until it bursts'. And wall street has alot to do with, look at fact; at the end of the so-called economical downturn, alot of wall street traders were convicted for embezzlement, mismanaging of funds, pyramids scams and etc. Do you think illegals immigrants has something to do with this? And this effect wasnt until in America but the whole wide world. In fact Spain had it worse, at one point the Euro nations wanted to kick them out, Spain, as a whole a country almost file a sort of bankruptcy. Additionally, since the cold war till now if you calculate the amount of money spend, you'll be astonished. Of course a lot the money spent were beneficial; NASA, chemical engineering, etc. helps bolster American's defense and weaponry but there were alot unnecessary spendings (speaking of the Iraqi war, money and perks given to the Pakistanis to help find Osama and lol and they used Osama as a main way to extort money from america #conspiracy) but yeah you made alot rational points though.

RyanLeonard
RyanLeonard

@AverageGuru @RyanLeonardWell at this point I'm ecstatic that this catastrophic issue is at least gathering this much attention as a whole. I think it's borderline criminal how the target demographic strategies that result in a better chance to win an election are first on the priority list before a dangerous issue crumbling our economic infrastructure from within. However, I think that going forward from here and realizing as a whole that we pretty much have screwed up there needs to be a drastic change in the tightening up in illegal immigration from here on out. I think that the 'slowing down' of the mind-boggling numbers coming through our invisible borders had a lot to do with our economy taking one of the worst blows in history and the disparity leveled out and also it was such a free-for-all that most of the groups of people with coming here in their minds had already done so. When it comes to the undocumented illegals already here we need to be realistic about it from a fiscal resource standpoint; you can pour an enormous amount of money into tracking down and deporting them to the border and seeing them about 2 months later back in the states or you can FINALLY be accountable and mandate responsible citizenship through their contributing to our economy and be law-abiding citizens like the rest of us.   

AverageGuru
AverageGuru

@RyanLeonard thats why congress needs to address the issue, but one of the stalemate is what to do with the estimated 11 millions undocumented already here. We all can argue that there are still illegal crossing the border, but the fact speaks louder, these crossings had decreased through the years. So augmented more securities at the border can even curb this situation much further.  But what to do with the remaining 11 millions here?

AverageGuru
AverageGuru

@RyanLeonard thats comparison is only used as a theory but whole subject goes deeper than that, my argument is not directed at 'picking vegetables' but to greedy employers looking for cheap labor. A honeycomb will attract honeybees, scrutinize these employers, make it harder for them to hire undocumented immigrants. Additional you even have born americans living in border  states smuggling immigrants as way of a business. My general is Americans in general are attracting these people come here (I am not talking about the criminals and no I am not talking about crossing the border as crimes but drug smuggling, gang members, etc ) and then greedy employers exploit them. 200 to 300 years ago when America was still forming, and even up to after WWII, you had immigrants flowing to the US for one reason, an opportunity to the american dream which is a better life. Immigration laws started in 1921 (mostly restrictions) but enforcement of didnt really start until circa 1965. So the only aspect of immigration to America that has changed is the laws of it but the primary reason of immigrating to America still remains the same. Anyway, my views is; tightly secure the borders, make it harder to easily enter and remain in the US (but not completely cutting off legal immigration) fines the estimated 11 millions for their unlawful presence but steadily and eventually make them earn their rights to remain here.