A Heaping Helping of Chutzpah: AIG Considers Suing the U.S. Government For Bailing It Out

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Scott Eells / Bloomberg / Getty Images

Hank Greenberg, former chairman and chief executive officer of American International Group Inc., pauses during an interview in New York on Nov. 10, 2011.

Update:  The Wall Street Journal is reporting that the AIG board has decided not to participate in the lawsuit.

Hank Greenberg didn’t get to where he is today by being timid. The former chairman of AIG built the company up from humble beginnings in the 1960s to become the world’s largest insurance company, before a 2005 accounting scandal forced Greenberg to step down. But he remained a major shareholder through the U.S. government’s 2008 bailout of the company, when the feds took an 80% stake in the firm in exchange for an $85 billion loan, which saved the company from certain bankruptcy. (The bailout eventually ballooned to $182 billion loan in exchange for a 92% stake.)

But Greenberg isn’t thankful for the rescue. In fact, he thinks we the taxpayers ripped him off in the deal, and he will meet with AIG’s board today in an attempt to convince the company to join his company, Starr International, in a law suit against the federal government, according to a report yesterday in The New York Times.

The suit does not argue that the bailout was unnecessary, but rather that the government exploited AIG’s near-bankrupt position to extract unfair concessions — concessions it did not require of other bailed-out financial institutions. Furthermore, the suit argues, the government used the company to issue “back-door” bailouts to financial institutions across the world. Greenberg is demanding $25 billion in damages to make him and his fellow AIG shareholders whole.

(MORE: Why the Government Wouldn’t Let AIG Fail)

The news that AIG is considering joining the suit has sparked outrage across the financial media. The New York Times pointed out the irony of the decision to sue being made behind the scenes while AIG has been running a high-profile ad campaign thanking America for its investment, and touting the fact that it has recently paid back the bailout funds in full. Forbes called Greenberg and his allies “ungrateful souls” and argued that if AIG joined the suit, it would ultimately “kill” the firm. The Washington Post called Greenberg’s view of the bailout “patently ridiculous.”

On the other hand, in July the U.S. Court of Federal Claims denied the government’s attempt to have the case thrown out, although a similar suit was dismissed from U.S. District Court in November. So do Greenberg and his allies have a point?

Well sort of, but it’s probably not the point they would like to make. Greenberg argued in his initial 2011 complaint that the Federal Reserve gave out loans to many different financial services companies at lower interest rates, and without demanding that the government take a huge ownership stake in return. This is true. But those institutions were either banks that were already closely regulated by the Fed or became bank holding companies and submitted themselves to Federal Reserve regulation in return for access to the Fed’s lending facilities.

AIG, on the other hand, was not a bank then and is not a bank now. It’s an insurance company whose financial products division – which sold billions of dollars in unregulated insurance protection against toxic real estate securities – helped sow the seeds of the 2008 financial panic.

(MORELots of Goodies Were Stuffed into the Fiscal Cliff Deal­)

The government would have liked nothing better than to allow AIG to fail, but the fact that the company sold protection against the very subprime mortgage securities that were bringing Wall Street down all around them made its survival paramount to the survival of the global financial system in general. If financial institutions across the globe couldn’t count on AIG to make good on the insurance it sold, there could have been a domino effect that brought down dozens of other banks across the globe. As Ben Bernanke described it in a 2009 interview with 60 minutes:

“Of all the events and all of the things we’ve done in the last 18 months the single one that makes me the angriest . . . is the intervention with AIG. Here was a company that made all kinds of unconscionable bets. Then, when those bets went wrong, we had a situation where the failure of that company would have brought down the financial system.”

The other argument Greenberg makes in his suit is that AIG was seized in order to use the firm as a conduit for “back-door bailouts.” It is on these grounds that his lawyers claim that the action violates the 5th amendment, which bars the government from taking private property “for public use, without just compensation.The complaint argues that the government purposefully played a game of brinksmanship with AIG, repeatedly telling the firm that it wouldn’t bail it out so that the government could snap up the firm at a fire sale price and use it as an instrument to filter bailout money to banks across the world.

(MORE: Former TARP Official: Both Parties are Captive to the Big Banks)

This is a more interesting argument to consider, because the government has long been criticized for using AIG as a tool for bailing out other institutions. In November of 2008, then-President of the New York Fed Tim Geithner made the decision to terminate the more than $60 billion in insurance contracts between AIG and several large banks, which covered losses in complex financial instruments that were then swiftly declining in value.  Instead of negotiating with the banks, however, and forcing those banks to take losses on contracts, Geithner decided to reimburse the banks 100 cents on the dollar. As Neil Barofsky, former Special Investigator General for TARP described it in his recent book Bailout:

“The deal was a gross distortion of the normal functions of the market. In a bailout free world, instead of being saved by the government, AIG would have been unable to make its cash collateral payments to the banks and gone into bankruptcy. As a result, the banks would have been left with the CDOs and stuck with their continued declines in value . . . In that respect, Geithner’s opening of the spigot of taxpayer cash for AIG was more of a bailout of the banks than it was for AIG itself.”

When looking at it from this angle, there is some truth to Greenberg’s argument. AIG received a far worse deal than many other bailout institutions. In addition, the bailout of AIG was a means to bailout the rest of the financial system. But then again, the bailout of any single too-big-to-fail institution is a means to bail out the rest of the system. That’s the point of “too big to fail” in the first place: The failure of one institution will cause the failure of the rest.

But you have all your work ahead of you if you then intend to argue that because some Wall Street institutions were treated too nicely during the financial crisis, that taxpayers owe AIG shareholders $25 billion dollars. That conclusion is laughable simply on the basis that if the AIG board wanted to reject the bailout terms and take the firm into bankruptcy, it could have made that decision in 2008. And nowhere in Greenberg’s 50-page complaint can you find a rebuttal to that simple logic.

MORE: Break Up The Banks! Dallas Fed President Calls for The End of “Too Big To Fail”

78 comments
KateSannicks-Lerner
KateSannicks-Lerner

Hm... interesting how AIG now has good-feel PR ads on the air.  Just how expensive IS crow these days, AIG?

adamadamsmith777
adamadamsmith777

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adamadamsmith777
adamadamsmith777

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VA_PERSON
VA_PERSON like.author.displayName 1 Like

To American Lawyers:  Would you please draft a document, collect the signatures from all US taxpayers (do it on-line, in less than 24 hours,  you  could easily collect more than 1 million participants) and issue a legal complaint to the AIG "Share Holders", as a group.  Let us sue them out of their pants and shirts.

OneIncensedTaxpayer
OneIncensedTaxpayer

My adrenaline is shooting through me and burning like fire..I can't
believe the gall of Greenberg's, and that the board of AIG would even
consider to sue the government (which represents the tax payer, i.e. YOU AND ME).
So many people and businesses are still struggling and many have failed
because of the financial crisis we ALL went through. They made it
(thanks to YOU AND ME), and they're still not happy? This is abominable, revolting, and what a slap in the face to all of us who forked out money to save them!!!
****EMAIL THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS!!!*****  BOARDOFDIRECTORS@AIG.COM

MarkWeisberger
MarkWeisberger

I appreciate the thoroughness of this article. AIG should have been allowed to fail. The financial system wouldn't have collapsed. It just would have meant that everyone using AIG for stop-loss insurance (re-insurance) wouldn't have that coverage from AIG anymore. THE END. They would just have to buy it from a different insurer.

But Treasury Secretary at the time, Henry Paulson, and his company, Goldman Sachs couldn't benefit personally from just letting AIG die. AIG's situation helped Henry concoct a scheme (the bank bailout of 2008) that increased his personal wealth by over a billion dollars.

Schemers like Henry know that there are opportunities in chaos. This is why we see so much fabricated chaos from the US government all the time. The clueless masses thank their representatives in Washington for saving them when they really should be throwing them out of office.

KateSannicks-Lerner
KateSannicks-Lerner

@MarkWeisberger Mark, the merits of the bailout are perhaps debatable, however, it's not as cut-and-dry as you make it; you're oversimplifying.

Furthermore, I don't recall ANYONE thanking the government for saving them in this scenario; most people were quite angry, if you recall.  #ijs

MarkWeisberger
MarkWeisberger

@KateSannicks-Lerner @MarkWeisberger Kate, It's sad that the best you can do in life is shill for scummy corporations. I doubt that you are even a real person. NO SANE PERSON WOULD DEFEND THE BAILOUTS. Hank and his buddies at Goldman are laughing about the idiots let them have all of that free money.

KateSannicks-Lerner
KateSannicks-Lerner

@MarkWeisberger @KateSannicks-Lerner Read up, Mark, I didn't defend the bailouts at all.  I don't think they should have been bailed out, per se, however, I think the effects would be much more far-reaching for all of is if they hadn't been.  I'm furious about the bailouts and I think AIG's Mr. Greenberg sports balls of brass.  Furthermore, I think corporations like Wells Fargo should be made to  pay ten years of their profits back into the communities they economically raped.

Regardless, it's even sadder that you feel the need to name-call instead of debate.  After all, I didn't attack YOU, your character or your sanity.  All I did was suggest that you oversimplified, and yes, I believe you did.  That's my opinion... =)

r3mote
r3mote

palpable remorse, but that's life.

GaryRMcCray
GaryRMcCray

Completely figures to me a giant Corporation saved by an offer from the US Government from complete destruction, an offer they could certainly refuse, now thinks it's best course is to sue the government because it didn't get as good a deal as they thought they should (in retrospect).

A giant corporation who's profits were always made by transferring the wealth of the middle class into the hands of their share holders (the one percent).

After all, not as much of the middle classes wealth got transferred into the hands of the one percent while they were paying back that unfair loan from the taxpayers of the United States (the 99 percent).

Hang the lawyers and stake the heads of the CEO's on the fence in front of the White House.

testdrive456
testdrive456

We should all boycott AIG products and services in response to such an egregious lawsuit. 

VA_PERSON
VA_PERSON

I can not help it:  "What the F%#@"?

Any court to accept this case should also allow me to sue all AIG EXECs and its share holders. 

Come-on, you scum people, let us all sue each other and let's see how do you find any jury who will side on you. 

eb3188
eb3188

Throw Greenburg and his cronies in prison; they fall into the same category as Bernie Maidoff. These large corporations got to big for their own good. Highly educated people with their greedy paws in the public pockets; reminds me of the money-changers in the temple. It's time to put a stop to the manipulation of the taxpayers monies. Fool us once shame on us, Fool us twice shame on you!

AdalbertoCervantesRodriguez
AdalbertoCervantesRodriguez

Desde el sexenio pasado les mencione que hay normas internacionales como el GAB que son ampliamente usados en EU para las cuentas claras en los gobierno, fuí atacado por Calderon, pero yo si tengo una maestría en ciencias en contabilidad en EU y sí se bien que existen y son bastante eficaces, aquí todo esta preparado para robar a la ciudadania, politicos mexicanos corruptos.

Companies and government in USA and Mexico are not applying GAB and FAB principles at all.: http://t.co/JiDwiUp

JamesWordsmith
JamesWordsmith

Greenberg should be commended for courageously standing up against the corrupt DC politicians and bureaucrats that exploited the financial crisis with the backing of the Federal Government.  If his lawsuit has no legal merit, why are Democrats politicians so "outraged"???

KateSannicks-Lerner
KateSannicks-Lerner

@JamesWordsmith Ah, much like throwing gasoline on a fire YOU started, and trying to pick out one of the coals and damning it, James?  Bottom line, it was a bed that AIG made, and just because the politicians were complicit, which most certainly they were, are, and continue to be, that doesn't mean that a suit has merit.

If the suit does have merit, why is AIG doing advertisement that amounts to pure damage control?

DanielGDaly
DanielGDaly

@JamesWordsmith Are you F@#%&@G kidding me? Where did you get Democrat anything out of this article you moron? Commended? Look James, It's not Democrat Politicians that are outraged by this... The entire friggin Nation is outraged!!! Cept for you, and the AIG Shareholders of course... You must be a shareholder huh Jimmy???

Amskeptic
Amskeptic like.author.displayName 1 Like

@JamesWordsmith  your perspective is absolutely stunning and hopelessly delusional. You think you can stuff the outrage into a "Democratic" box? Greenberg and his ilk are the ones who corrupted Washington, Idiot.

SKate
SKate like.author.displayName 1 Like

It's good we have an opportunity to re-examine the role played by AIG and the government. We should reexamine the bailout and the reason why the government needed to take the action.

AIG as an insurance company backed security that were risky. By doing this in the bucket loads, it jeopardized not only itself or it's direct customer by the World Economy as a whole. Not many companies in the world can jot down in their portfolio "Capable of bringing down the entire the World Economy single handedly", and for that kudos to AIG.

The fact that one institution can excercise that much control over a sector of the economy is the very definition of a monopoly. I believe AIG got off the hook easy and we need to reexamine the financial crisis from a antitrust point of view. Allowing a company to accumulate that much risk and allowing it to fester is a risk to the economy (National and International) and ultimately to the consumers themselves.

Monopoly is determined when an entity behaves "to an appreciable extent independently of its competitors, customers and ultimately of its consumer". This definition correctly defines the actions of AIG in the years leading upto the 2008 financial crisis. The government should show that practices with such disasterous consequences cannot be tolerated and protect the consumers from such entities. By taking action, government should show that parking Huge amounts of risk and jeopardizing the economy carries huge litigation implications as well.

JamesWordsmith
JamesWordsmith

@SKate Agreed.  But also a good opportunity to re-examine the role of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and their  implicit loan guarantees, along with public policy that promotes and subsidizes home ownership..

Amskeptic
Amskeptic

@JamesWordsmith @SKate  public policy that promotes home ownership is a good thing. Abusing the policy in the name of ill-gotten wealth, illegal churning of mortgage contracts, illegal foreclosures, and all the nefarious and immoral behavior of the big banks like Countywide, that is what we have to re-examine. We have to re-examine why we give Wall Street a bailout while we throw duped home-owners into the street.

yb
yb

Chutzpa????? What an anti semitic title! What does him being Jewish have to do with this????

He may be a pig but it has nothing to do with him being Jewish!

mandycat
mandycat

@yb  Come, come now.  Your knee jerk response reminds me of the scene in "Annie Hall" in which the Woody Allen character hears a passerby ask his companion in a Bronx accent:  "Did ju eat?"   Woody to his friend:  "Did you hear that?  Jew?  Jew?" 

People use this word all the time about all sorts of people, with zero anti-Semitism intended.  Relax, yb.




yb
yb

@mandycat @yb clearly the intention of the writer is to infer that GREENBERG is a jew and what he is planning on doing is Chutzpa! I dont disagree that it is chutzpa. I ask you to look at some of these comments about Israel and Jews and you will see that they got it too! I am by no means a anti-semitism screamer, but this title says the JEW is a money hungry .....!

FirstDraftHistorian
FirstDraftHistorian like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

I must say American capitalism is wonderful.  Throw hard working people in the streets but save billionaires with working people's tax dollars then spend millions in frivolous court cases against those same greedy billionaires who started the whole mess.  What if we just jail the buns and seize their assets?  Does that violate the 5th Amendment?

commenter1223
commenter1223 like.author.displayName 1 Like

AIG should never have been bailed.  It should have crumbled under it's own weight, malfeasance and corruption into a pile of worthless garbage and the shareholders should have lost everything.  For those that believe the bailout was a good thing, I believe the old adage applies. No good deed goes unpunished.  The shareholders should be suing Greenberg into oblivion.  It was HIS decisions and corruption that made HIS company fail.  Greenberg should be living in subsidized housing and driving a beater.

cybervigilante
cybervigilante

@commenter1223 Why should he be driving? Let him use public transit like a lot of the people he bankrupted, have to. My business failed in 2008 and now I'm taking the bus.

curt3rd
curt3rd

Subsidized housing?  You want to give him more money?

smehgol
smehgol like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

Right now, right here in United States, disproportionate Israeli/Jewish media, financial and political control is rampant. Our country, not just Palestine, has been occupied by Israel. The Wall Street felons remaining unpunished attests to the depth of that occupation.

Once great America has been bankrupted by: 1. Our Mideast wars instigated by Israel. 2. Our support for Israel’s Mideast conquests. 3.The Great Recession felonies of Wall Street Ethnic Israel Firsters and their traitorous Ethnic Israel Firster government enablers.

As a post WW2 youth, I was proud of my country's heritage of democracy, honor, justice, opportunity and stature among nations. Today, I grieve for our diminished America, for our future, for our children and grandchildren.

joe54321
joe54321

The CEO of AIG must be a moron for allowing this to happen. This should get thrown out of court if is should materialize.

frosty
frosty like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

remember, the goal of every capitalist like Hank Greenberg is to privatize the gains and socialize the losses.

kmyers000
kmyers000

@frosty Yes, we should always keep the American model of capitalism(privatize gain, socialize loss) in mind when we comment on these egregious events...

GrantMacDonald1
GrantMacDonald1

Jay S. Wintrob, CEO, AIG Retirement Services has already been to the bonus trough. Mr. Wintrob is also Vice-Chairman, J. Paul Getty Trust which has refused to pay our overdue bill; after we earned the Getty Oil Company shareholders $4,000,000,000. Such arrogance!

Grant MacDonald
Chairman and CEO
MACDONALD BANK INC.

I earned the Getty Oil Company shareholders 4 Billion Bucks
On the Reserve acquisition; the way they treat me -- it really sucks!
As the Getty inheritors bask in glee;
All I asked for was that they look after me.
Four billion dollars they earned on Reserve
My fee I surely deserve.
It turns out J.P. Getty may have been a Nazi;
His family even goes back to Germany.
With Hitler, Goring & Goebbels he did stand;
While trying to undermine the American land!
For paintings & artifacts he did receive
With his oil he was able to deceive?
Hoover & the FBI and Roosevelt they knew
That J.P. Getty & espionage he drew!
Many a young lad and Jew did die
As planes dropped bombs from the sky.
For years while Getty sat in Berlin
He may have committed many a sin.
The ashes and smoke from the chimneys it rose
While old man Getty sat cozy; he chose.
With artwork held tightly under his arm
Still dripping in blood -- as the real owner met harm.
Into the ovens & on meat-hooks, bullets between the eyes
Listen very carefully you can still hear their cries!
While the Gettys sit in England; at their estate at Wormsley
And Gordon sings in San Francisco
With his 727 in tow.
The Getty museum sits atop Malibu
While the corpses of World War 2 scream -- J.P. Getty -- We know you!

MACDONALD BANK is going forward with the $22,000,000,000 Getty/Hitler war crimes lawsuit based on J. Paul Getty’s support for Hitler beginning in 1938 and the GETTY OIL COMPANY shipments of oil during the Battle of Britain.

MACDONALD BANK

- v. -

J. PAUL GETTY TRUST; GORDON GETTY; RONALD GETTY; J. PAUL GETTY JR. ESTATE; MARK GETTY; ANNE GETTY EARHART; CLAIRE GETTY PERRY; CAROLINE GETTY; CALIFORNIA LT. GOVERNOR GAVIN NEWSOM; CALIFORNIA DEMOCRAT NANCY PELOSI AND LOS ANGELES COUNTY MUSEUM OF ART.

2003 documents declassified by UK Warfare Ministry reveal that in Oct. 1941 the pro-Nazi Jean Paul Getty employed and lodged Nazis at his Pierre Hotel in New York City; Nazis who were involved in spying on and sabotaging Allied Forces’ war production plants. An employee at the Getty owned Pierre Hotel in New York City wondered why there were so many Germans being hired and staying at The Pierre during World War II. He called the FBI and the FBI charged J.P. Getty with Espionage, FBI File 100.1202, June 26, 1940. It was the job of the FBI in peace and in war to root out internal enemies of the USA. The FBI report refers to Getty’s alliance with Göring, Goebbels & Hitler. FBI reported in 1942; that the Getty owned Spartan Aircraft Company which was the world's largest aeronautical school trained Nazis in Florida to become pilots during WWII even Pearl Harbor was attacked. 43,000 people were killed in the UK while J. Paul Getty was in Berlin still shipping oil to Hitler five months before Pearl Harbor; December 7, 1941. The mother of J.P. Getty was German. As aristocrats with treasures of art were executed -- beginning in 1933 -- with the outbreak of war; Getty assiduously added to his vast collection with the Nazis. The Ardabil carpet and Rembrandt of Marten Looten are at the Los Angeles County Museum of Art. The Gainsborough of Christie purchased in 1938 is at The Getty Museum in Los Angeles.


Lib4Ever
Lib4Ever

........I think they have room in Gitmo fort Greenberg...........

Matsu
Matsu

Do not do business with AIG.  Why do business with a company that bites the hand that fed it.

GoOg
GoOg like.author.displayName 1 Like

I think it is great.  Obama forced Banks to take this deal and I hope it comes back and bites him.  This is what happens when the government gets involved in the private sector.  Complete and utter failure.  You look at how Obama is using Europe's socialist model.  You see how well it has worked out for them.  The same is coming here failure.  

KateSannicks-Lerner
KateSannicks-Lerner

@GoOg LMAO... GoOg, I was going to light into your mis- and/or under-informed pants there, but cybervigilante did a good job!  ALL THIS WAS STARTED UNDER THE BUSH REGIME, so yeah.

BTW, I don't think you have the slightest idea what you're talking about re Europe's socialist model, BUT, what's not working for the EU is AUSTERITY.  Didn't work there, won't work here.

Read a book, dude.

Amskeptic
Amskeptic like.author.displayName 1 Like

@GoOg  well aren't you a patriotic American. You bandy words about like "socialism" with real flair. Government has been involved with the private sector since almost forever. You need a more discerning eye and a broader world-view to avoid sounding like an idiot. This deal was made into law by Congress, the bought and sold Congress who yet refuses to acknowledge that the austerity measures executed in Europe is exactly what is throttling their economies. 

Loudomonte
Loudomonte like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

Not a realistic or common sense response to a complex issue. No regard for actual facts either. Simplistic and inaccurate to say the least. Whom ever you are, I hope we hear from more people like you so that we can wake up the rest of the populice and voters and wrestles the rest of the congress away from the non-sensical arm chair quarter backs such as your self.

I welcome this law suit only beacause of the debate and utter public relations disaster that is coming to AIG.  It will educate and infuriate the public even more than they were in 2008.  Please keep ranting, we want the coalition of common sense to gel and vote as a block.  I'm not talking tea baggers, I am talking about Common Sense.

Keep up the good Rant!

We will fight the good fight!

joe54321
joe54321 like.author.displayName 1 Like

@GoOg I would not call it a failure. The government made a 22 billion dollars profit and it will remain that way. This will be laughed out of court.

StuartJ.Gray
StuartJ.Gray like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

GoOg - Ummm... You DO realize that it was GW BUSH that started the TARP program dont you?

I am sick of peole that do not have the facts bashing Obama for something that he did not do.

Next you will blame Obama for cancelling the shuttle progrm right?

cybervigilante
cybervigilante like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

@GoOg You're nuts. As if those poor widdle banks were forced to slice and dice bad mortgages, lie about them, then sell and resell them all over the planet so their masters could pocket billions in ill-gotten gains. Besides that, 2008 was when Bush was in office. He started the bailout which was necessary after he spent a trillion bucks on a phony war in Iraq. Is your memory gone, too? I know you hate having a black President, like Rush Pigbaugh does, but at least make some sense and try to remember who Started this mess. Oh yeah, the GOP wants to forget Bush and pretend Obama was President the last twelve years ;')

GoOg
GoOg

@cybervigilante @GoOg Ever head of the Dodd Frank act?  There was the real culprit but there again do not take responsibility for liberal actions.  Who created the housing bubble.  Hmm?   Banks being forced to make bad loans by the liberal establishment.  Even Bush warned you idiots of the repercussions.  But keep drinking the koolaid.   Glug, glug, glug.  

unbelievable
unbelievable

It doesn't matter what color he is, it only matters that he has no idea how to run the country. Take a look around and see for yourself how our deficit has increased, how our taxes have gone up and how the world sees us a joke.He has no credibility because his word means nothing!

jason024
jason024

@unbelievable "how the world sees us a joke."

Now you are reaching.....you hate the man so be it. Just don't delude yourself into thinking the whole world hates us. In fact it is the opposite to what happened after the monster f'up that was the Iraq invasion.

GoOg
GoOg

@cybervigilante @GoOg  The libtards also want to pretend Obama has not spent more than all Presidents combined over his 4 years of failure.  I really could care less it is all coming to a head pretty soon and the mooching rats are going to sink with the ship too. Just like liberals to never take responsibility for their actions whatsoever.  Bunch of amazing slobs.  

GoOg
GoOg

@Hollywooddeed @GoOg What narrative would that be the 500 million Obama spent to send Union members out to force his base to vote.  Or the narrative where we are 16 trillion dollars in debt and 80 trillion in credit debt?  Or the delusional President who does not think we have a spending problem? Haha

Hollywooddeed
Hollywooddeed like.author.displayName 1 Like

@GoOg Sure, keep up that narrative.  It's one of the main reasons Willard lost and got only 47% of the vote.  Oh, the irony!

jason024
jason024 like.author.displayName 1 Like

@GoOg @cybervigilante Try to stay on point....you tried to argue that Obama was responsible for the bailouts he was NOT.......Get a Grip