Do the Suburbs Make You Selfish?

Urban areas have begun to outpace the growth of suburbs. Could that be good for America's social ecology?

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New numbers from the Census Bureau suggest that America’s long love affair with the suburbs may be cooling off just a bit: In the year-long span from July 2010 to July 2011, in the majority of America’s largest metropolitan areas, densely packed urban areas grew faster than suburbs – reversing a trend that has held since the heyday of the Model-T in the 1920s. If this current trend holds, it could be good news for the environment, reducing the time commuters spend in gas-guzzling cars going to and from their jobs in the city. Could it also be good for America’s social ecology?

That’s one of the implications of a new paper by Harvard economist Edward Glaeser, which takes aim at something that many homeowners and would-be homeowners consider as American as apple pie and Apple iPads: the home mortgage interest deduction.

Glaeser argues that the deduction, as well as other governmental policies that encourage homeownership, effectively “bribe” the well-off to segregate themselves from poorer people by abandoning more diverse cities for more homogenous and affluent suburbs.

(MORE: How the Rich Got Rich)

As Glaeser explains:

The most fundamental fact about rental housing in the United States is that rental units are overwhelmingly in multifamily structures. … More than 85 percent of single-family dwellings are owner occupied; more than 85 percent of dwellings in homes with more than three units are rented. When the federal government subsidizes homeownership explicitly, through the home mortgage interest deduction, and implicitly, through the government-sponsored enterprises (GSEs) Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, it is pushing Americans away from dense multiunit dwellings toward sprawling single-family detached homes.

Obviously there are plenty of single-family homes in cities. But dense urban areas can’t exist without a large percentage of multifamily structures, from 2-flats to giant residential skyscrapers.

And as more affluent Americans have moved to the suburbs, they have also moved away from poorer neighbors.

Because poorer people tend to live disproportionately in cities … bribing wealthier people to leave higher density apartments is increasing the physical, and possibly also the social, distance between rich and poor.

Citing the work of economist Erzo F. P. Luttmer, who found that support for redistributionist policies was greater among those who live near poor people of the same race, Glaeser argues that “[i]f proximity breeds empathy …  then distance may reduce that empathy.”

(MORE: How to Improve Obamacare)

While Glaeser’s argument here remains speculative, it’s in line with a great deal of recent research that suggests wealth (and the attendant ability to segregate oneself from the poor) may make people more selfish and less empathetic. In a cover story in the latest issue of New York magazine, Lisa Miller uses this research to present a compelling case that “Money Can Make You Mean.” As one money-empathy researcher, Berkeley psychologist Paul Piff, tells Miller:

[T]he rich are way more likely to prioritize their own self-interests above the interests of other people. It makes them more likely to exhibit characteristics that we would stereotypically associate with, say, a**holes.

Some of the most interesting research on what New York magazine calls the “money-empathy gap” comes from another Berkeley psychologist, Jennifer Stellar. In one recent experiment, Stellar showed a group of ethnically and socially diverse students a video depicting a family trying to deal with a child with cancer; while the video tugged at the heartstrings of all those who watched it, lower-class students felt more compassion and empathy for the struggles of those in the video.

As Stellar explains in a statement about her research,

It’s not that the upper classes are coldhearted. … They may just not be as adept at recognizing the cues and signals of suffering because they haven’t had to deal with as many obstacles in their lives.

Are there ways to help decrease this “money-empathy gap” short of having everyone in the suburbs move back into the city? In Forbes, Alice G. Walton turns to Beverly Hills psychiatrist Reef Karim, who has treated a lot of troubled rich folks. “When you massage that money-making muscle for so long, it doesn’t go away,” Dr. Karim tells Forbes. “It informs all of your relationships. CEOs of big companies have some of the most sociopathic traits … because … those personality traits lend themselves so well to business. But the downside is that they’re very hard to shut off.”

Dr. Karim finds that teaching his patients meditation and mindfulness are effective ways to develop what he calls the “empathy muscle.” I’m guessing not many of Karim’s patients follow the Buddha one step further, giving up their worldly possessions to live amongst the poor. But if the research of Piff, Stellar and others holds true, such practices could teach more than a few Scrooges a lot of empathy, very quickly.

70 comments
dklloyd
dklloyd

There are many outworn stereotypes re cities and suburbs.Not all cities are alike.Not all suburbs are alike.

I live in a city that has 1000's of beautiful "detached" homes with porches, front and back yards with trees and gardens.There are 2 and 3 family houses and very nice apartment buildings.Public Transit is reliable.There are lots of high quality grocery store,parks and public spaces..also lots of greenspace and walkable areas..This city has not been subject to "urban renewal,"Many parts of NYC are well-preserved,e.g areas in Brooklyn-so you find beatiful old houses and appt buildings that escaped the wrecking ball.These areas are homey.Others have been stripped and abandoned,although.lately,there have been many successful projects to reclaim these areas.

Many suburbs are filled with cookie-cutter house with few or no trees,lots of thirsty lawns,few sidewalks,strip malls ,shopping malls,highway driving for commutes..Exercise involves indoor tread mills or gym memberships.Yet,some suburbs have retained a town or urban model where beautiful  houses and buildings have been preserved,along with trees and public green spaces,downtown shops,public libraries etc and the spirit of community.You don't have to get on the highway for every shopping trip

CrimsonWife
CrimsonWife

Most people who live in single-family residences have previously lived in units in multi-family dwellings when they were younger. I spent my 20's living in a traditional apartment. I never again want to live in a place where I don't have my own private entrance, garage, washer/dryer, etc. I lost so much time shlepping stuff to and from the shared parking garage up to my apartment, laundry to and from the shared laundry room, trash and recycling to and from the shared bins, etc. 

Moving to a single-family residence was less about getting away from poor people and more about reclaiming literally hours in my week.

KentCDetrees
KentCDetrees

Is a suburb a place built around the car or a place where people live to avoid paying taxes for the less fortunate?

pauls60
pauls60

Suburbia is the end result of a selfish, confused culture. 

Adam Sault
Adam Sault

"Liberal" says - Oh yea, well I'm more charitable than you. "Conservative" says - Oh yea, I'm way more charitable than you. If each of you below have posted something like that, you are retarded. As if charity and giving is somehow a function of your political ideology. Notice how little each one of the posters mention about their own giving, just broad statements about how a large group of people "probably" act. Turn off your computer, tv news, and go outside and ride a bike.

Jerry Howe
Jerry Howe

Where I live,  most of the psychiatrists and psychologists  make the best money treating the children of high achieving  parents in the suburbs.  They live in urban areas but have offices

in the suburbs. They are also treating the parents as well.

Most of them agree people that live there are pretty screwed up. Same goes for people that live in gated communities.

f_galton
f_galton

If suburbanites are so selfish how come in the suburbs there is so much wife swapping going on?

Alastor Institute
Alastor Institute

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Ph D Track Petersen
Ph D Track Petersen

Part of my earlier life I spent in suburbs. Now I spend much time in oftentimes disadvantaged parts of the inner city. Regardless of party lines, and I mean this seriously, I believe to experience  a different perception of both people and environment if comparing and contrasting suburbs versus urban settings. So as opposed to blame anyone, I would rather encourage those who have had the same or similar experience I have had to step forward and simply share their sentiments with others - objectively please.

Calipenguin
Calipenguin

Mortgage interest deductions were not created to reward the wealthy.  They were created to give a helping hand to young upwardly mobile families.  Stimulating demand for new houses was and still is a great way to create new jobs.  Who is more selfish, a middle class engineer who moves his family into a suburb with good public schools, among educated Asian, Muslim, and European immigrants, or a wealthy Wall Street executive who lives in a gated Manhattan penthouse and hires chauffeurs to send his kids to exclusive private schools?

Koolmeme
Koolmeme

Some disclosure would help here ... can David Futrelle, Reef Karim, Paul Piff,  Lisa Miller and Edward Glaeser please provide their tax bracket, political affiliation and zip codes of their primary residence?

Talendria
Talendria

By this logic, communist countries should have the highest levels of empathy.  Let's test that theory on China, North Korea, and the former Soviet Union.  Yeah, I'm not seeing it either.

Good Lt.
Good Lt.

I lived in the city for years (Philly). I now live in the burbs. I would NEVER go back to living in the city. It's a dirty, crowded, corrupt, crime-ridden, regulation-choked, high-tax, low-yield noise-fest with no end in sight. The quality of life differential is night and day. Schools, environment, responsive government, traffic, noise, scenery, you name it. One cannot truly appreciate difference between the two worlds without having lived in both. I have, and I am perfectly happy with the choice I made. Cheers!

Teresa Koch
Teresa Koch

Every time I read a study like this, the researchers and "experts" seem to come from Harvard, Berkeley, etc.

I'm beginning to think that perhaps we shouldn't give too much credence to any studies that come out of these places - the drivel that is coming out of their mouths is such convoluted logic that it defies description.....

Like this, for example:

"Citing the work of economist Erzo F. P. Luttmer, who found that support for redistributionist policies was greater among those who live near poor people of the same race, Glaeser argues that “[i]f proximity breeds empathy … then distance may reduce that empathy.”

Or maybe the conclusion to be drawn is that people who support "redistributionist policies" are the ones who will benefit the most from them, and those who move further away don't want to have their possessions "redistributed" while they are away at work.....

(They don't want to have their salaries "redistributed" either, but that's another story)

Bill Jensen
Bill Jensen

You have got to be kidding.  In the Fairfax County, Va suburbs, there is far more diversity in the schools, neighborhoods, and soccer teams than I have EVER seen in DC or its schools.  The "problem" is that we in the 'burbs are averaging salaries in the 6-figures and "selfishly" feel that we deserve quiet and safety for our families and ourselves.

Solo4357
Solo4357

Geez, just say poor people who vote democrat and get money from working people through taxation are better nicer people and be done with it. You think you're clever and erudite but instead you're retardly transparent. Just write Vote Obama instead of a column and save everyone a lot of time. Taking care of myself and giving to charity of my choices, saying the government does a bad job of helping people is some sort of sin.. we get it. You're fine with failure as long as you can feel better about yourself and not have to put any real effort into making sure results are successful. Takes effort to research charities, write checks, etc. Naw, Just let the government do it cause they do such a fabulous job. We've moved 13 trillion to the poor and now we have no poor!

Oh.. wait... noooooo

Bill
Bill

I think people need to start questioning the myth that suburbs are homogenous and that cities are diverse.  As someone who recently moved to the suburbs from a lifetime of city living, I can certainly attest that the assumption is not always true.

My wife and I lived in DC for 10 years before moving to suburban Hartford, CT and though I was apprehensive about moving to "the burbs" the part that has struck me the most is how much more diverse suburban Hartford is than downtown DC.

In DC, our friends and neighbors were all affluent, all from top colleges, nearly all single, all liberal, and mostly all white. They all loved the same music, went to the same restaurants, traveled to the same places, watched the same TV shows and ate the same food. Everyone in DC was exactly alike - and, admittedly, I liked it.

Of course I SAW other people, but they didn't live where I lived and I never truly interacted with them - and rarely, if ever, even had the opportunity to do so.

My new neighborhood in Collinsville, CT is far, far more diverse in my neighborhood in DC. At a recent neighborhood block party, we had gay couples, liberals, republicans, tea partiers, low-income people, rich people, married couples with kids, single people, and retired couples.  In my DC neighborhood, we had no kids, no retired people, no tea partiers, no republicans, no low-income people and few married people. My single street in Collinsville has more diversity than all of Dupont/Logan combined. It's incredible. Granted, most in Collinsville are white, but I like to think that diversity is more than just skin color.

So please, can we end that assumption?

Mike Hanson
Mike Hanson

People (like me) moved to the suburbs because the cities suck for the middle classe. Wanting lower taxes, more room, better schools, less corruption, less crime, less hassle and better access to employment (as many of the jobs have relocated to suburbia) isn’t selfish, its smart.

zza371creek
zza371creek

I have seen studies like this before. I do have to say in general it is true.  People tend to have more understanding for people that they meet and see day to day vs people that they never see. 

A perfect example i see a lot in the south is homeless guys that wonder into a rich part of town.  The cops will pick up the guy and move him back to the poor side of town.  The guy did nothing but just walk down the road.

 

I do think the housing credit you get on taxes is wrong. The government just encourages people to go out and buy homes which most of the time they do not need to buy(why we are in the mess we are in now).   This credit is nothing more than a special interest group showing it power in DC.

I would like to see it as a living credit.  If you rent or whatever you could get a credit on  your taxes for it.  Like it used to be in the united states before the 1950s.

kenroyall
kenroyall

What nonsense. The most charitable people are Conservative Christians, most of which are not city dwellers.

Calipenguin
Calipenguin

 The ivory tower elitists have to publish something, anything, to maintain their reputation. 

sopranoliz
sopranoliz

@Solo4357 13 trillion to the poor? Where did you get that number? Only a fraction of federal spending is for welfare, y'know.

Burn_the_Witch
Burn_the_Witch

The residents of poor areas have historically shown much empathy and understanding for outsiders and there is no historical precedent for burglary frompoor people "wandering" in upper income neighborhoods.  Riiiight.

Reality is something the so-called "reality based community" has little familiarity with.

Kristophr
Kristophr

 The cops pick up the bum and move him because he has no business there except begging or theft. Which is a good argument for gated communities and a good argument against public property.

But then, liberal twinkies like the one who wrote paper in question consider individualism and private property to be reptilian, which make sense if your goal is to attack self-determination, I guess.

I do agree that tax breaks for home loans should go away, but not because I hate suburbs ... I just hate government welfare ... any welfare, except maybe for the hopelessly crippled.

People who are well off should not need government assistance.

Jamie Bobini
Jamie Bobini

Perhaps we should look at the premise of the article. It doesn't really seem to be about where people live, as it is the ability to move to the suburbs (that rich people can afford to do). Hence distancing themselves physically and emotionally from the poor.  And therefore becoming more selfish.

afmajret
afmajret

 Conservative Christians. Who are they? I might agree that Christians who live their faith are most certainly charitable, but not necessarily more so than any other group who think that if you have been given much, you should give much. The virtues of charity and compassion form the underpinnings of all the major world religions, and it would be divisive and arrogant for any one group to lay exclusive claim to them. Yes, I am a Christian, and a politically conservative and I live that part of my faith that tells me to give generously and cheerfully to all who ask of me. And so do my Jewish, Buddhist and Islamic neighbors who live in the suburb with me.  

Guest
Guest

Horse hockey!

SheenaTaylor
SheenaTaylor

This comment is complete nonsense. Conservative Christians? I grew around A LOT of them, and I know that this is completely false. I've met more atheists and people who just don't have much of an opinion of religion, and they are STILL more charitable than CC's. Get real.

Danyz
Danyz

No government assistance? Well, who's gonna pay for your heart transplant? They're pretty expensive you know... "And they shall know that we are Christians from our love..."  

jason024
jason024

Getting jobs how exactly? 

Romney can elminiate all regulations and unions  and give huge tax breaks yet jobs still will be leaving the US since children and slave labor is way cheaper than paying an american a decent wage.

amercians want cheaper....but at the expense of american jobs. When was the last time you shopped and only bought american made products?

jason024
jason024

Yes the middle class does not need welfare but more than the hopelessly crippled will need that assistance. 

You do know you will still have to pay for the poor to stay out of your neghborhood and to clean up after them. Yes there are plenty of moochers, yet there are also plenty of people who through no fault of their own end up poor and the old conservative mantra 'taking responsibilty' does not apply. 

msmischief
msmischief

So liberals don't think they should give much because they have been given much.  (And given much they have -- they earn 6% more  than conservatives.)

Monika Nelsen
Monika Nelsen

Your comment is complete nonsense. I know a lot of conservative Christians and we do a lot for charity, both in fund raising amp; volunteering. Every atheist I've known is too busy bashing religion (especially Christianity) and filing law suits to curb religious freedom to be charitable, in *any* sense. Get real. 

LoudRambler
LoudRambler

 As soon as church donations are not treated as "charitable action" for all purposes, taxation included, this statistical oddity will go away.

echosyst
echosyst

I am being real, the issue has been studied. A large portion of giving occurs through churches. Secular liberals aren't real big on church. Mitt Romney gives away enormous amounts to charity, many times more than Obama and Biden.

TexBob
TexBob

 Your comment is complete nonsense and you just hate Christians.

Burn_the_Witch
Burn_the_Witch

Your anecdotes don't trump actual statistical data.  I know it's hard, but you have to accept reality.

Wallace
Wallace

 Actually, I think kenroyall is talking about donating to charity.  And this is a fact based on real data.

You may think that CC's may not *act* charitable, but that is your opinion.  The fact it, they donate the most to charities.

gekkobear
gekkobear

 http://www.nptrust.org/philant...

"In 2010, the majority of charitable dollars went to religion (35%),

education (14%), grantmaking foundations (11%) and human services (9%)."

So over one third of charitable giving goes to Religious organizations, but you're going to claim is given by atheists?

http://www.american.com/archiv...

Sorry, not the case... " religious people gave nearly four times more dollars per year, on

average, than secularists ($2,210 versus $642). They also volunteered

more than twice as often (12 times per year, versus 5.8 times)."

Any chance you could find a single source for your incomprehensible and inane position; or should we accept your idiocy without evidence?

Oh, and the "people you know"... nice; assuming the plural of anecdote is "statistically relevant data"... is it?

Have you met a statistically relevant group of people that are also well spread across the nation and demographics?  Or are you completely unaware of how science and statistical studies are done and think "people I meet" must be a meaningful standard?

I'm going with the numbers, statistical analysis and data... you "get real".  And maybe get some real data when you're making an argument too.

sopranoliz
sopranoliz

@Kristophr You're equating a liberal with a Democrat. They aren't the same thing.


And what's so bad about giving a helping hand to people who work hard yet still live below the poverty line? Without food stamps I wouldn't be able to eat. Cost of living in my area is far above what the minimum wage provides.

sopranoliz
sopranoliz

@Mary I--wait, what? What makes you think that Christianity and Communism are mutually exclusive? Many aspects of Communist ideology fit in quite well with Christian ideology. Yeah Marx rejects religion in the end but we've yet to see a Communist country that actually follows everything Marx said.

Danyz
Danyz

Adios, amigo. Have a nice day. (please note cloud of dust and growing distance as I gallop off.)

Danyz
Danyz

You are definitely athirst...

Burn_the_Witch
Burn_the_Witch

Anyone who claims offense, especially at something relatively innocuous (unless of course you are equally offended when watching a Monty Python movie), is expecting someone else to control their emotions for them due to their inability.

"Your screenname offends me, therefore you should change it before I am able to offer a thoughtful response."

Patently absurd.

Kristophr
Kristophr

 If I need a heart transplant, I'll mortgage my house ... which I paid for with saved cash.

As for your advice to Christians, I am an atheist, so try again, little concern troll. If I want advice from a Democrat on how to win elections, I'll get a lobotomy first and become a Democrat.

Mary
Mary

Christians are anti-communist because communism and Christianity cannot co-exist.  I doubt that anyone but the elite will be able to have heart transplants in the future.

Danyz
Danyz

I don't expect shyte from you. Continue on your merry way, please.

Danyz
Danyz

I don't expect sh*t from you. Continue on your merry way as a self- centered ignoramus... 

Burn_the_Witch
Burn_the_Witch

The fact that instead of presenting a thoughtful response, you expect me to control your emotions for you by using a screenname that doesn't offend your delicate sensibilities reveals more about you than it does me.

Since we're in advice offering mode, I'd suggest laying off the verbal puffery and respond to the substance of a comment as far as you are able in the future.

Danyz
Danyz

It would seem that thoughtful responses zip by like darting swallows in the nasty verbal free for alls these forums seem more prone to becoming. As well, my response was a rhetorical appeal to the concept of charity in general. Bottom line: your moniker is crude and offensive. But judging from this comment, you are not. Why not shoot for a little harmony betwixt the two?

 

Burn_the_Witch
Burn_the_Witch

Ahh, replying with an appeal to Christianity.  If only these weak arguments weren't completely destroyed by the fact that Christianity didn't/doesn't ask for the government to do its work for it.

It's sad when an atheist has to point this glaring fact out.  But perhaps you'd like to complain about my name again instead of a thoughtful response?

gekkobear
gekkobear

 So the new drilling jobs in North Dakota; that we could have in a dozen or so states if the Federal Governed allowed drilling on Federal Lands... how about those jobs?

Hard to outsource a job drilling for Natural Gas in Colorado; peopel in India have trouble reaching that far.

Of course that's evil; we must only use oil and buy it from foreign countries; producing something here is wrong... unless it's not energy based then it's good.

Right?

Kristophr
Kristophr

 Unemployment was at 5% when Bush left office. The real rate under Obama is about 11%.

Let's try getting rid of Obama's programs like Obamacare, that are scaring employers, who have no clue how much a new employee will cost them while Democrats are in office.

Kristophr
Kristophr

 Yes, it is not the fault of the unemployed. Such is to be expected when a socialist lunatic like Obama messes with the economy.

The best way to help them is to remove Obama from office, so they can get jobs again, instead of assistance.

Jen Kuhn
Jen Kuhn

Actually many of us athiests do charitable work which we do not report . I do animal rescue personally, and foster, s/n at my own cost, and either keep or rehome stray or abused animals. I have volunteered my time for the shelters and doing pet therapy for nursing homes as well, which is not shown on the tax rolls.  One reason the Christians are shown as more generous is they give to one place (church) and claim it on their taxes. The secular charity is often in smaller, less traceable ways so doesn't show. Also there are far more Christians than athiests, so as a group of course Christians will show up as giving more.  I don't bash Christians so please don't make broad generalizations about us. Glass houses and all that.

gekkobear
gekkobear

 Right, which is why when we talk about donating time...

http://www.american.com/archiv...

" religious people... volunteered more than twice as often (12 times per year, versus 5.8 times)."

See they're just tithing which is why they give FOUR TIMES AS MUCH MONEY but don't care; which is why they volunteer TWICE AS MUCH as the secularists who are really nicer.

Sorry, you've got my link there for the data I'm using... can we see your link?  Do you have one?  Any data at all?  Any basis for your claim?  Anything?

No? 

Anyone surprised?

msmischief
msmischief

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, namely that conservatives give more to non-church charities.

(especially do not notice that liberals do outgive conservatives at charity that mostly benefits the well-off, such as orchestras, museums, and private schools that their own children are attending.)

Monika Nelsen
Monika Nelsen

FYI, the volunteer work we do, we don't get paid for, and we don't deduct from taxes. I'm also pretty sure that people aren't itemizing their food amp; diaper donations for tax purposes. 

Jerry Howe
Jerry Howe

Yes, he gives away money to charity to avoid paying taxes. Anything to not pay taxes, including investments off shore and in blind trusts, to avoid paying taxes. 

The middle class ends up taking up the slack for him by paying what he is evading. This is nothing new. It is why Rupert Murdoch wants you to elect him, so he and Mitt can avoid paying the taxes the we people, that go to work (if we have jobs) have to pay.

Why would you want a president like that ?

The Gilded Age returns with the GOP and Mitt Romney is their poster boy. If you don't remember what the Gilded Age was all about, go to "Gilded Age" /Wikipedia.

Donald Trump and Mitt Romney want to give you jobs. But they don't want to pay taxes. They want you to work hard and pay the taxes that they don't feel they need to pay.

Wake up America - they think that you're a bunch of chumps !

happydayfortennis
happydayfortennis

I don't care for either Romney or Obama/Biden, but I think it's easier for a gazillionaire to give away money freely than someone from the middle class.

usmc1914980
usmc1914980

And there is something wrong with That? Christens are excellent lion food.

Fatesrider
Fatesrider

Alright Kristopher, I'll give it a shot:

Statistics are misleading when the "donations" from "Conservative Christians" to "Charities" come from tithes demanded by their religious leaders instead of by freely giving.  Those tithes are the source of most "giving to charities".  Since tithes aren't "donations" as most people tend to think of them, the statistical data is skewed.

I think of it as buying away one's sins, though that's not how it's supposed to work.

After all, given the plethora of violent imagery often used by those claiming to be "Conservative Christians", their blatant political activism in spite of their allegedly tax exempt status and the intolerance in Conservative Christian circles and their coordinated and deliberate on the rights of those who do not subscribe to their religious mythologies, the most unyielding, hateful people in this country are Conservative Christians.  More money is spent on conservative political activism than on Christian charity - much of it from tithes.

Your turn.

(OH, and by the way, the "suffer not a witch to live" quotation from the Bible was mistranslated from the original Hebrew (old language) in the eighth century.  The correct word was "poisoner".  It was scribed much the same as the word "wise woman" used to describe an herbalist or someone wise in the way of natural remedies.  The mistranslation since then has caused a lot of grief.  So much for divine inspiration, but then, what do you expect from a text that was plagiarized, cherry-picked, incorporating preexisting mythology used primarily as a tool to gain and keep secular power?)

Kristophr
Kristophr

 Is arguing with his screen name the best you've got?

Danyz
Danyz

With a moniker like yours you speak of reality? There is only abject meaness of thought in it. How can you expect anyone to believe you would give any positive thing freely if you cannot offer us a positve title?