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	<title>Comments on: The Real Economic Cost of Snow</title>
	<atom:link href="http://business.time.com/2010/02/10/the-economic-cost-of-snow/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://business.time.com/2010/02/10/the-economic-cost-of-snow/</link>
	<description>The latest news and commentary on the economy, the markets, and business</description>
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		<title>By: augmentedfifth</title>
		<link>http://business.time.com/2010/02/10/the-economic-cost-of-snow/#comment-9316</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[augmentedfifth]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Feb 2010 20:59:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com/?p=8602#comment-9316</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ha ha! It&#039;s funny to see how deeply people read into things and turn them into emotionally charged issues! One commenter correctly pointed out the reader created sensationalism.

The post was merely pointing out the very robust and self-correcting nature of a free-market system. As well, Stephen Gandel elucidates the &quot;egocentricity&quot; of economics. That being the way people tend to look at the flow of money from their personal perspective ignoring the systemic long-view of overall prosperity and global economic health. The whole system consists of many &quot;shells&quot; (global, national, state, local, personal...etc.) and ANY intelligent discussion shouldn&#039;t ignore the effects that PERSPECTIVE have on it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ha ha! It&#8217;s funny to see how deeply people read into things and turn them into emotionally charged issues! One commenter correctly pointed out the reader created sensationalism.</p>
<p>The post was merely pointing out the very robust and self-correcting nature of a free-market system. As well, Stephen Gandel elucidates the &#8220;egocentricity&#8221; of economics. That being the way people tend to look at the flow of money from their personal perspective ignoring the systemic long-view of overall prosperity and global economic health. The whole system consists of many &#8220;shells&#8221; (global, national, state, local, personal&#8230;etc.) and ANY intelligent discussion shouldn&#8217;t ignore the effects that PERSPECTIVE have on it.</p>
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		<title>By: bryanfromhouston</title>
		<link>http://business.time.com/2010/02/10/the-economic-cost-of-snow/#comment-9315</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bryanfromhouston]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 23:51:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com/?p=8602#comment-9315</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Science, 
.
No, that is not what his implication.
.
All he was saying is that the true cost of a snow storm is less than the inflated and spectacular numbers given by many in the financial media.
.
Further, his point was that lost productivity from one, two or God-forbid an entire week could easily be shifted give the dynamics of most current jobs and the ability for those of us to simply make it up.  Even in a manufacturing economy, you would have to run north of 85-90% utilization before you could have effectively lost productivity.
.
To ascribe anything more is to buy into sensationalism.  And...that ironically, was the point the author was trying to make.  If you were playing elaborate game of charades, I then offer this as a purely academic undertaking.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Science,<br />
.<br />
No, that is not what his implication.<br />
.<br />
All he was saying is that the true cost of a snow storm is less than the inflated and spectacular numbers given by many in the financial media.<br />
.<br />
Further, his point was that lost productivity from one, two or God-forbid an entire week could easily be shifted give the dynamics of most current jobs and the ability for those of us to simply make it up.  Even in a manufacturing economy, you would have to run north of 85-90% utilization before you could have effectively lost productivity.<br />
.<br />
To ascribe anything more is to buy into sensationalism.  And&#8230;that ironically, was the point the author was trying to make.  If you were playing elaborate game of charades, I then offer this as a purely academic undertaking.</p>
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		<title>By: sciencebzzt</title>
		<link>http://business.time.com/2010/02/10/the-economic-cost-of-snow/#comment-9314</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sciencebzzt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 22:38:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com/?p=8602#comment-9314</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[To elaborate:
&quot;Snow expenditures go into the economy and pop out somewhere else.&quot;

Alright, suppose we live in a world where it never snows, and no money is taken from the populace by government for snow removal via taxes.  That money would then be in the hands of the populace to spend as they choose, on electronics, cars, bananas, etc... basically anything they want.  Currently, snow, and the taxes taken for the removal of that snow are in effect robbing from establishments such as electronics companies, automotive companies, banana growers, etc.  Every dollar spent on dealing with snow is one less dollar able to be spent on another productive use.  

The author of this article is implying that its ok to pay whatever you want for the removal of snow because it&#039;ll just recycle back into the economy anyway.  This is patently untrue.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To elaborate:<br />
&#8220;Snow expenditures go into the economy and pop out somewhere else.&#8221;</p>
<p>Alright, suppose we live in a world where it never snows, and no money is taken from the populace by government for snow removal via taxes.  That money would then be in the hands of the populace to spend as they choose, on electronics, cars, bananas, etc&#8230; basically anything they want.  Currently, snow, and the taxes taken for the removal of that snow are in effect robbing from establishments such as electronics companies, automotive companies, banana growers, etc.  Every dollar spent on dealing with snow is one less dollar able to be spent on another productive use.  </p>
<p>The author of this article is implying that its ok to pay whatever you want for the removal of snow because it&#8217;ll just recycle back into the economy anyway.  This is patently untrue.</p>
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		<title>By: bryanfromhouston</title>
		<link>http://business.time.com/2010/02/10/the-economic-cost-of-snow/#comment-9313</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bryanfromhouston]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 22:07:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com/?p=8602#comment-9313</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Deconstruct,
.
Science was, shall we say...(and pardon the pun considering the broken windows)... jumping to conclusions.  :-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Deconstruct,<br />
.<br />
Science was, shall we say&#8230;(and pardon the pun considering the broken windows)&#8230; jumping to conclusions.  <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: sciencebzzt</title>
		<link>http://business.time.com/2010/02/10/the-economic-cost-of-snow/#comment-9312</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sciencebzzt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 22:01:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com/?p=8602#comment-9312</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[deconstructiva:
The most specific line:
&quot;The new expenditures come in the way of labor costs. NYC is paying $12 an hour to people hired for snow removal. So some of that money will come back to the local government in the form of taxes. Yes, most of these people probably fall in a very low income bracket, but chances are they will spend most of the money they make, generating sales tax, and more economic activity&quot;

And the second part of the article is absurd as well:
&quot;The reason is that just because people don&#039;t make it to work doesn&#039;t mean work doesn&#039;t get done...
It just means some of the work will get done tomorrow. And that&#039;s true for all sectors of the economy.&quot;

So one day is ok?  How about a week?  How about a year?  What if society stops for 10 years and then resumes?  Will all 10 years of economic progress be made up for in the first few days/years of resumed activity?  Of course not.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>deconstructiva:<br />
The most specific line:<br />
&#8220;The new expenditures come in the way of labor costs. NYC is paying $12 an hour to people hired for snow removal. So some of that money will come back to the local government in the form of taxes. Yes, most of these people probably fall in a very low income bracket, but chances are they will spend most of the money they make, generating sales tax, and more economic activity&#8221;</p>
<p>And the second part of the article is absurd as well:<br />
&#8220;The reason is that just because people don&#8217;t make it to work doesn&#8217;t mean work doesn&#8217;t get done&#8230;<br />
It just means some of the work will get done tomorrow. And that&#8217;s true for all sectors of the economy.&#8221;</p>
<p>So one day is ok?  How about a week?  How about a year?  What if society stops for 10 years and then resumes?  Will all 10 years of economic progress be made up for in the first few days/years of resumed activity?  Of course not.</p>
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		<title>By: deconstructiva</title>
		<link>http://business.time.com/2010/02/10/the-economic-cost-of-snow/#comment-9311</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deconstructiva]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 20:57:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com/?p=8602#comment-9311</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[...why (in detail, please) is this a broken window fallacy?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;why (in detail, please) is this a broken window fallacy?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: sciencebzzt</title>
		<link>http://business.time.com/2010/02/10/the-economic-cost-of-snow/#comment-9310</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sciencebzzt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 20:11:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com/?p=8602#comment-9310</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wow... this is amazingly wrong.
Classic example of the &lt;b&gt;broken window fallacy&lt;/b&gt;.  If money spent on snow removal is not really wasted... why not go downtown and break all the windows in the city... then money would be spent on replacing the windows and cleaning up the broken glass.  Window repairmen would make money and then re-spend it... right?
Wrong... its a classic fallacy explained fairly well here:

http://www.ridelust.com/ridelust-rant-gms-broken-window-fallacy/
and here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window

its econ 101 stuff]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow&#8230; this is amazingly wrong.<br />
Classic example of the <b>broken window fallacy</b>.  If money spent on snow removal is not really wasted&#8230; why not go downtown and break all the windows in the city&#8230; then money would be spent on replacing the windows and cleaning up the broken glass.  Window repairmen would make money and then re-spend it&#8230; right?<br />
Wrong&#8230; its a classic fallacy explained fairly well here:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.ridelust.com/ridelust-rant-gms-broken-window-fallacy/" rel="nofollow">http://www.ridelust.com/ridelust-rant-gms-broken-window-fallacy/</a><br />
and here:<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window</a></p>
<p>its econ 101 stuff</p>
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		<title>By: modifiedreal</title>
		<link>http://business.time.com/2010/02/10/the-economic-cost-of-snow/#comment-9309</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[modifiedreal]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:06:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com/?p=8602#comment-9309</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And I&#039;m also wondering whether there&#039;s any more numbers to support the argument aside from simply inches snow fall vs market changes. That leaves way too much room for many confounding variables.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And I&#8217;m also wondering whether there&#8217;s any more numbers to support the argument aside from simply inches snow fall vs market changes. That leaves way too much room for many confounding variables.</p>
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		<title>By: modifiedreal</title>
		<link>http://business.time.com/2010/02/10/the-economic-cost-of-snow/#comment-9308</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[modifiedreal]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 17:02:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com/?p=8602#comment-9308</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is a very interesting article.

But then now I&#039;m wondering how/if the concept of &#039;sick days&#039; are similar to &#039;snow days.&#039; With many health care cost estimates including sick days and  productive hours lost and job time lost due to illness, wouldn&#039;t these also seem to be an incorrect estimate based on this article? Applying the idea in this article, the hours lost due to illness and the work missed would eventually be made up and get done, so then there is no real cost aside from medical expenditures?

The article makes an intriguing argument, and I&#039;m wondering whether this can be extrapolated at all or whether it really is confined to snow.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a very interesting article.</p>
<p>But then now I&#8217;m wondering how/if the concept of &#8216;sick days&#8217; are similar to &#8216;snow days.&#8217; With many health care cost estimates including sick days and  productive hours lost and job time lost due to illness, wouldn&#8217;t these also seem to be an incorrect estimate based on this article? Applying the idea in this article, the hours lost due to illness and the work missed would eventually be made up and get done, so then there is no real cost aside from medical expenditures?</p>
<p>The article makes an intriguing argument, and I&#8217;m wondering whether this can be extrapolated at all or whether it really is confined to snow.</p>
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		<title>By: augmentedfifth</title>
		<link>http://business.time.com/2010/02/10/the-economic-cost-of-snow/#comment-9307</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[augmentedfifth]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 22:40:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com/?p=8602#comment-9307</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great point! Although it seems fairly obvious when stated aloud, people tend to ignore the &quot;systemic&quot; view of the economy when they focus on isolated events and their local consequences. 

I live in Colorado but was born and raised in the DC metro area. It&#039;s definitely interesting to see how contrasted the reactions are to winter weather. An interesting and publicly acknowledged &quot;local economic phenomenon&quot; here is how when Denver gets snow during a nationally televised Bronco&#039;s home game, the ski resorts get a &quot;bump&quot; in reservations. Also, because of the western state&#039;s continuing water shortages, precipitation in any form is almost ALWAYS welcomed with open arms.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great point! Although it seems fairly obvious when stated aloud, people tend to ignore the &#8220;systemic&#8221; view of the economy when they focus on isolated events and their local consequences. </p>
<p>I live in Colorado but was born and raised in the DC metro area. It&#8217;s definitely interesting to see how contrasted the reactions are to winter weather. An interesting and publicly acknowledged &#8220;local economic phenomenon&#8221; here is how when Denver gets snow during a nationally televised Bronco&#8217;s home game, the ski resorts get a &#8220;bump&#8221; in reservations. Also, because of the western state&#8217;s continuing water shortages, precipitation in any form is almost ALWAYS welcomed with open arms.</p>
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		<title>By: deconstructiva</title>
		<link>http://business.time.com/2010/02/10/the-economic-cost-of-snow/#comment-9306</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deconstructiva]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 19:12:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com/?p=8602#comment-9306</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks, Stephen. This reminds me of retailers who blame poor numbers on the weather. I’d instead blame overpriced out-of-fashion crap + people on tight budgets or (especially) out of work. Besides, if people are snowed in, won’t they just shop online instead? It would be fun to see #&#039;s for events / things that &lt;i&gt;rely&lt;/i&gt; on snow for sales: ski resorts, hot chocolate, etc.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Stephen. This reminds me of retailers who blame poor numbers on the weather. I’d instead blame overpriced out-of-fashion crap + people on tight budgets or (especially) out of work. Besides, if people are snowed in, won’t they just shop online instead? It would be fun to see #&#8217;s for events / things that <i>rely</i> on snow for sales: ski resorts, hot chocolate, etc.</p>
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