Our Debt Is Getting Scary

President Obama  handled his first State of the Union pretty well on Wednesday evening. But overhanging his ambitious agenda is a darkening cloud of debt as we were reminded Thursday when the senate voted to raise the nation’s debt limit by $1.9 trillion. The CBO director recently noted that debt held by the public totaled $7.5 trillion, or 53% of GDP, at the end of 2009. Of perhaps greater concern, this frightening percentage only looks to get worse. By the end of 2020 the debt is expected to climb to $15 trillion, or 67% of GDP. America is a resourceful country but these projections are beginning to look scary.

A good book making the rounds these days, ‘This Time Is Different’ by economists  Carmen Reinhart and Kenneth Rogoff, adds greatly to the history of sovereign debt defaults with data going back more than 600 years (yes, the data get spotty). Their research offers  a historical tapestry  of sovereign defaults and related crises as common among countries and more frequent than one might guess, ranging from the “pronounced exchange rate instability during the Napoleonic wars,”  to the effective default via inflation by the United States and Europe in the Seventies.

America’s enormous debt has consequences, says one money manager who stopped by my office on Thursday.  Steve Romick manages the FPA Crescent fund, and was nominated by Morningstar as one of the best managers of the decade. He sees America’s debt burden driving up Government bond yields because, he believes, foreign buyers will demand it— not because they expect an outright default by the U.S. but because they know America’s way is the more subtle ‘inflation default’. Higher bond yields will be the first of many penalties Americans pay because we have allowed the nation’s debt to grow and grow. What’s Romick planning to buy as a defense against the debt threat? Farmland.

By the way, there’s no ticker symbol for dirt.

Related Topics: Economy & Policy
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  • tegwar

    Uhm, nothing in this post really supports the headline. The text supports debt getting larger, but not scary. At what debt-gdp ratios do Reinhart and Rogoff anticipate collapses? When Romick says gov’t bond yields will be driven up, what magnitude are we talking about (I promise they’re going up from zero – but how high is key).

  • ps56penn62pr64

    I am confused about the national debt.

    By what logic does a sovereign government with the inherent authority to issue the nation’s total money supply, with all necessary laws enacted, with historical precedent established and with court rulings settling the question of legitimacy have a national debt?

    When faced with a budget deficit, Congress can choose to issue debt free money (as it did from the civil war until 1971) or it can issue an interest-bearing bond. Does anyone know a sound reason for its issuing bonds?

    Without a sound reason, the nation’s debt appears to be the biggest scam in the history.

  • bacotawordpress

    Ummm. because when the government throws money into circulation you get inflation. If that happens often enough (as in “more than once”) people will expect it, and factor that expectation into their prices. If prices get ahead of the money supply, the real economy (production) has to shrink. Even if that doesn’t happen, the government (unless it has miraculously balanced its budget) has to print money fast enough to exceed whatever expectation of inflation the public has factored into its prices, which causes the public to increase its expectation of inflation and voila! “hyper-inflation”. I think that is the point the nation’s currency isn’t working any more and people start bartering or using foreign currencies.

  • http://emustrangler.wordpress.com emustrangler

    I actually thought it was higher, 53% isn’t wonderful, but certainly seems manageable. All this complaining for 53%?

    Japan is at 170% and they can still borrow.

    France, Hungry, Israel, Belgium, Greece, and several other countries are above 70%, and we have a growing population to help us get out of it, unlike many of those other places.

  • worldgenie

    Emustrangler… Your absolutely correct. 53% isn’t that scary, many countries have worse. The problem is the speed at which it’s going up.
    We have a structural problem. The entitlements the government has promised will bankrupt america by around 2025. by then the budget will be split by medicare/Medicaid , interest and social security with nothing left for anything else (including military or even basic government services). as you can imagine we will have major problems way before 2025, and in fact we already do as much of our government is funded by borrowing and the amount we barrow will only increase every year.
    The only way to prevent total disaster, is to limit the entitlements such as increasing retirement age to 70 and revamping the healthcare system (current modifications are a joke if you understand them and will do nothing about costs-and look how hard its been to get even that passed-but thats another thread).

    Thats the bottom line as to why people are nervous about the debt. 15years isn’t much time to make major changes before a total collapse of our economic system.

  • worldgenie

    Oh and in the article 53% refers to % publicly held debt. total debt is about 12 trillion or 89% GDP in the last estimate I’ve seen

  • John Curran

    Fear is relative, to be sure, and there’s more than one measure of America’s debt. (Thanks for the added stats!) That said, from any perspective you will see the cost of this expanding IOU as worsening. Here’s the Congressional Budget Office estimate:

    “CBO projects that the government’s annual spending on net interest will more than triple between 2010 and 2020 in nominal terms, from $207 billion to $723 billion, and will more than double as a share of GDP, from 1.4 percent to 3.2 percent.”

    By 2020 we will effectively be launching (and funding) a new TARP program every year, not to rescue Wall Street but to keep our creditors happy.

  • barkadoodle

    The US owed about 120% of GDP after WWII, and was able to pay that down after the war, so I don’t worry about this debt being 53% of GDP right now, as it is. But I think first, we need to shore up our economy again, even if that means more government spending to counter the lack of private spending and investment. Once the economy grows and people get back to work again, we can develop a good tax base to help repay that debt again.

    This is why I think Obama is right on with his ‘green jobs’ idea. The ‘green’ energy economy he talks about is probably the best way to rebuild our economy from the ashes of the old and dirty industries that are basically dying away. If we don’t take the reigns on this, other countries will beat us to that, and will hinder our ability to grow out of our debt.

    Face it, the oil, coal, and steel industries really don’t employ that many people any more. Steel is going to China, strip mining has eliminated most mining jobs, and eventually oil will run out (I’ve heard estimates of another 20-30 years worth left). The future of our economy will require highly skilled labor and specialty manufacturing. Investment in R&D for new energy technology, retrofitting for better energy efficiency, and reengineering our transportation are good ideas, and a lot of small businesses are waiting for a chance to build on their initiatives, but need some help to fight the market forces aligned against them due to large businesses who want to keep the status quo.

  • ps56penn62pr64

    I don’t think that I understand your point about inflation.

    In any fractional reserve monetary system, inflation is inherent because borrowers always owe the banks more money than exists. The banking system creates 99.9% of the US money as the principal of loans. As I’m sure you will agree, loans must be repaid with interest. Because money to pay the interest is not created by anyone, it must be paid from the existing money supply, thereby, leaving insufficient money to repay the loans. The inescapable consequence of any fractional reserve system is the impossibility of fulfilling contractual obligations. Banks hide this fault by continually originate new and large loans, using the newly created money to service old loans. Banks constantly increase the money supply, diluting the value of existing money (inflation), expand the total debt in the economy and increase their profits while giving the impression of solvency for the banking system.

    We have seen this pattern so often in the investment industry that it has its own name: a Ponzi Scheme.

  • waltwriston

    What I find appalling about all this gov. spending is that the gov grills “irresponsible” borrowing of US consumers and rightly so, but the government is the most irresponsible of all, sooner or later this debt problem is going to overshadow even what just happened/happening.

    Either the debt must be repudiated (or at least a sizable chunk), long term internal liabilities such as Medicaid and Social Security be eliminated or the US will inflate its way out.

    From the Fed, Is the US bankrupt?
    http://research.stlouisfed.org/publications/review/06/07/Kotlikoff.pdf

  • 1hazeleyes

    Can someone explain the pertinance of the article below? I’ve seen egg-heady-seeming “pish-tish” comments about it, as though it doesn’t matter, but it looks pretty frightening to me. Slower growth that we have right now doen’t sound like a good thing. I want to know about it in terms of humans, not of long-term economy (in 50 or 100 years).

    Tuesday, January 12, 2010
    US Will Hit 94% Debt to GDP Ratio Next Year, Surpassing the Level Where Debt Starts Reducing Economic Growth

    Ambrose-Evans Pritchard notes:

    Fitch expects the combined state and federal debt to reach 94pc of GDP next year, up from 57pc at the end of 2007. Federal interest costs will reach 13pc of revenues, meaning that an eighth of all taxes will go to service debt.

    The figure of 94% is dramatic given that two top American economists – Carmen Reinhart and Kenneth Rogoff – wrote last month :
    The relationship between government debt and real GDP growth is weak for debt/GDP ratios below a threshold of 90 percent of GDP. Above 90 percent, median growth rates fall by one percent, and average growth falls considerably more. We find that the threshold for public debt is similar in advanced and emerging economies…
    Indeed, as Forbes noted in December:

    Add the unfunded portion of entitlement programs and we’re at 840% of GDP.
    Deficits do matter.

    Note 1: Reinhart and Rogoff also make it clear that the larger the ratio of external to internal debt, the greater the drag on economic growth. The U.S. had a high level of external debt, although the Fed is now covertly monetizing much of the U.S. debt. So I’m not sure what the ratio of external versus internal debt really is at the moment.

    Note 2: Fitch’s 94% figure includes state as well as Federal debt. I am not sure if this changes the above analysis.

  • http://emustrangler.wordpress.com emustrangler

    Worldgenie, I half agree: future entitlements are a problem. But when you say: “The entitlements the government has promised will bankrupt america by around 2025. by then the budget will be split by medicare/Medicaid , interest and social security”, it’s somewhat misleading, SS and interest on current debt is a realtively small part of that, and levels off pretty quickly over the next decade. What eats up the budget at the year 2025 is almost entirely the accelerating cost of Medicare/medicaid (and interest on the deficits created by those programs.

    So cutting entitlements doesn’t really help, even health related entitlements, since even if you make huge cuts, eventually the exponential cost of Medicare eats up your gains. We could raise the retirement age to 85 and totally get rid of Medicaid, saving hundreds of billions of dollars, and it would only push the point in time where entitlements consume the entire budget out a few years, because of the nature of exponential growth.

    So in the big picture, there’s only really one game that counts as far as the countries long-term budget, “bending the cost curve” and restraining the growth of the cost of health services. TARP, SS, Bush tax cuts, Stimulus, etc are all minor in comparison.

  • waltwriston

    After reading that link which is from 2006 and taking into account all trillions that just went “out the door” the US is in really deep!

  • waltwriston

    The more money that’s poured into service the debt from taxes means there’s less money that’s left to fund economic growth and government programs; well that’s it in a nutshell.

    Happens to so-called Third World Countries all the time, of course with assistance of the Mafioso IMF.

    It’s strange that it mentions monetized debt, IMO without the monetization of debt there could never be equity as fictitious it is; in a monetary system where money is debt based.

  • tanboontee

    Numbers, immensely huge astronomical numbers.

    The US national debt stands at near $11 trillion. Raising the debt limit by $1.9 trillion would push it up to $13 trillion. This could happen within the next couple of years especially when the mind-boggling escalating amount of dollars keep being burnt away in the wars.

    Do not be too dependent on the generosity of East Asians and Arabians any more, lest suffering from greater economic pain in the long run.

  • davess

    At the end of world war II, the national debt was about 120% of GDP. As everyone knows, our economy did not collapse. The debt was about 50% of GDP under Nixon, and went down to about 35% under Carter. It rose under Reagan and Bush I, declined under Clinton, and started going up again under Bush II, up to about 85%. Of course it is higher after one year of TARP and stimulus but not at an all time high.

    It took a number of years to dig this hole and it will take a few years to get out. Don’t panic.

  • dochosvet

    I realize debt is a bad thing. I have spent my whole life trying to stay out of debt. I realize contracts and promises are broken all the time. So the trick is how not to break them. I have been paying in to SS for 50 years with the expectation that I will collect part of my diversified retirement program that way. I did IRA’s, SEP’s and just plain old savings. I had inheritances, and property. Thanks to Wall Street who you cant trust and obviously isn’t loosing any income, 30 to 40% of that stuff is gone. So I may be nervous about debt but I am more nervous about what retirement I have left being greatly reduced for the common good so my country doesn’t go bankrupt in some peoples minds. Obviously other people in these letters can’t even agree on that, while my old enemy Wall Street goes merrily along. So I am still working to keep “even” but not quite making it. I don’t want my SS reduced because some people think we are going down the tube when obviously others disagree. That leaves me left hanging out to dry for nothing maybe. That is my inflation and debt concern.

  • http://onlineshoppingfordebt.wordpress.com onlineshoppingfordebt

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