Jared Diamond’s Haiti story

“It’s very interesting: The Spaniards came to the island of Hispaniola first, settling mostly on the greener (rainier) side”

Actually, they settled on the whole island, but the Spanish authorities didn’t want their subject trading (or “smuggling” as they referred to any trade with the crown enemies) with the English and the Dutch. So in the early 17th century, governor Osorio as per the order of Spanish king Felipe III ordered the whole western part of the island depopulated. This episode is know in Dominican history as the “Devastaciones de Osorio” and it actually caused the collapse of the island economy.

Agreed, urgent medical needs must be met first, but then what for Haiti? Some would say that aid shipments caused Haitians to flee the countryside and build the PaP slums to be near incoming aid. Haiti needs a big jolt so the people can get beyond the day-to-day struggle. Every two-bit dictator knows that if you keep the people poor, they do not have the time or energy needed to revolt.

You might find this assessment of Haiti’s current (as of the eighties) and historical problems interesting:

http://www.webster.edu/~corbetre/haiti/misctopic/leftover/whypoor.htm

While i appreciate Jared Diamond’s story, I think the root of Haiti’s problem with poverty is the reported fact that 50% of the population cannot read. I would guess, judging from their religious affiliations, that at least 30 to 40% of the remaining population don’t have reading as one of their habits. ‘Those who don’t read are in the same condition intellectually as those who can’t’. Perhaps this can’t read, don’t read condition explains the religion problem. There is just no other way to explain why 80% of the Haitians are Catholics and 9 to 10% of them are Protestants other than the fact that they either cannot or do not read.

We cannot began to talk about slavery or poverty until we talk about the Catholic Bishop Bartholome de La Casa’ proposal to the Catholic Queen and King, Isabella and Ferdinand. These Catholics paved the way for the importation of Africans so that they might become slaves in the first. I don’t see how the African people could become Catholics with that bit of history is understood.

Nice try to find a politically correct answer. The facts are that the Dominican Republic, like the US, is/was a destination for the best and brightest from other countries to have a better future. Immigration of smart people over hundreds of years is the reason for economic success.
Haiti on the other hand, was a dumping ground for boatloads of slaves that were not the best and brightest…they were the weakest, most unintelligent africans that were captured and sold to white slave traders by more intelligent and stronger african tribes.
This is why African Americans also as a group are nowhere near as successful (smart) as Africans in the UK and other countries where each individual immigrates on their own initiative.
People in the US will often say things stereotypical things like “why are all asians good at math?” The truth is, there are plenty of stupid asians that stink at math…they just didn’t have the motivation and drive to get to the US, and are still in their hovels in asia.
Not to say there are no smart Haitans…the smart ones get out of the country. For example, Haitians comprise 1% of african americans, but 11% of african american doctors. The ones left in Haiti are the dumbest of the dumb. Not much hope for them unless there is immigration from other smart peoples, or the relatively few smart Haitians have a reason to stay in the country.

“For example, Haitians comprise 1% of african americans, but 11% of african american doctors..”

I would really love to know where did you got that statistic. Do you have a link or reference that I can check out?

Thanks,

Ulises

Bill Clinton a few days ago. Of course, he isn’t the most trustworthy source for anything…

“I’ll tell you an interesting statistic,” Clinton said. “In the United States of America, 11 percent of all African-American physicians are Haitians. Only about 1.5 percent of African Americans are Haitians.”

Link is here:
http://ncronline.org/news/global/haiti-desperate-poverty-even-earthquake

Recent research shows the importance of cognitive ability to macroeconomic outcomes.

Populations show different average levels, which robustly predict economic performance.

‘The impact of smart fractions, cognitive ability of politicians and average competence of peoples on social development’ Rindermann et al Talent Development & Excellence
Vol. 1, No. 1, 2009, 3-25

http://iratde.org/issues/1-2009/tde_issue_1-2009_03_rindermann_et_al.pdf

Geoffrey Miller explained recently in the Economist that gene research may identify reasons for this:

“We will also identify the many genes that create physical and mental differences across populations, and we will be able to estimate when those genes arose. Some of those differences probably occurred very recently, within recorded history. Gregory Cochran and Henry Harpending argued in “The 10,000 Year Explosion” that some human groups experienced a vastly accelerated rate of evolutionary change within the past few thousand years, benefiting from the new genetic diversity created within far larger populations, and in response to the new survival, social and reproductive challenges of agriculture, cities, divisions of labour and social classes. Others did not experience these changes until the past few hundred years when they were subject to contact, colonisation and, all too often, extermination.

If the shift from GWAS to sequencing studies finds evidence of such politically awkward and morally perplexing facts, we can expect the usual range of ideological reactions, including nationalistic retro-racism from conservatives and outraged denial from blank-slate liberals. The few who really understand the genetics will gain a more enlightened, live-and-let-live recognition of the biodiversity within our extraordinary species-including a clearer view of likely comparative advantages between the world’s different economies.”

http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=14742737

The “boatloads of africans dumped on the Islands” and in the Americas as well were and still are human beings. The Catholic Kings and Queens, under the absolute authority of the Pope, gave permission to the slavers to carry out the heinous acts of enslavement. The slave trade was not driven by the IQ test of the African prisoners but rather it was driven by the unlimited capacity for inhumane cruelty on the part captors. The Africans in Haiti and in the Americas never knew what hit them. The God with the talking snake did a number on them and they have not figured it out yet. Like you Johannsebastian we assumed that there was something inherently wrong with us. We have spent 4 centuries trying all kinds of nonsensical things trying to fit in. This includes joining the original slave trading church. African people all over the world need to suspend church services of every denomination and spend that time in the library reading everything that they can find on religion, history and philosophy. What’s done is done but we human beings have the capacity to undo and redo as often as we like. But we cannot recreate ourselves unless we spend some time learning how to reason. And this, of course, requires reading. lots and lots of reading.

The first thing that Haitians need is thousands of reading teachers swarming the island with books teaching every Haitian, those who cannot read as well as those who do not read, the benefits of reading. And, of course, I agree with you, the same thing is needed in the U. S. A. where we also have those who can’t and those who don’t read. It’s the same thing.

Chemo and Johannsebastia I love having this conversation with you. It is refreshing that we can talk without offending and defending. Chemo, I am not a scientist, I am a self taught reader. My reading habits spanning over 40 years delivered me from the guilt, blame, shame and finger pointing culture. My self-guided evolution delivered me from the bowels of ignorance and poverty. At age 71, I’m still evolving. I am not competent in the area of GWAS. I am open, however, to learn. In the meantime all of my knowing and measuring comes from the I AM position. I know who, what, where, when, how and why I Am. And I know that I can change myself when ever I chose and as often as I like. I am afraid of pain but I can take a hit. I am afraid of death but only up to a point. Everything about me says that I am 100% human. I’m not super-human, 101%. I am not sub-human, 99%. My DNA root is in Africa. Not even God can separate me from that Love and make me turn against myself.

By the way, I don’t see the fundamental difference between Voo Doo, Christianity or Islam. Do you? There are tons of black magic stories of talking snakes, asses, plagues sent by magical powers, etc. in all major religions. One thing the Haitians have in common with Moses, Christ, Allah, et. al., literacy was of no consequence to these super-humans. Somebody had better tell those Haitians and their American counter parts to put those rosary beads down and get a book.

In the beginning was the word and the word was with E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G!

Very curious comments. Having been born on the spanish speaking side of the island I remember the strange attitudes of my older relations toward Haitians. It reminded me most of the attitude toward blacks that I saw in rural parts of this country especially the South.
It doesn’t take too much reading to understand the genesis of the Haitian issue, most importantly that having revolted against a European power, they were isolated and bullied for years to come, eventually agreeing to repay France compensation for its loss of slaves and territory-a compensation in the millions that Haiti finally paid off just after World War 2.
It should also be noted that no government in North America raised a hand to help the new Haitian Republic. It should also be noted that when Haiti invaded and ruled the neighboring Spanish colony they brought a level of sophistication in law and education that to this day is taken for granted by most Dominicans.
This is too short a forum to elaborate of the racial/social divides of the two nations, but my solution is the one I advocated to my grandparents when I last visited there a few years ago.
The best solution for Haiti AND the Dominican Republic is a Confederacy like Canada. A united island can better share its resources throughout and benefit the most people.
What folks in the United States fail to understand most of the time when they see or read about poverty in Latin America especially is that those economic systems are pure capitalism with no social safety net.

Confederation should be look at seriously.

Foundation Stones to Happiness And Success…

This latest Bolaño has been a long time coming to these shores; Nazi Literature has been available in translation in the US since early 2008, and I don’ t think I’ m the only one who’ s been impatiently waiting for the UK publishers to get a wriggle on…